I was just chatting with Discord Man and we were both thinking that we'd just rather pretend Friend in Need never happened. He suggested, as I'd seen elsewhere, that When Fates Collide should have been the final episode.

I'm inclined to agree. I wasn't too crazy about WFC (I've only seen it once), but actually I think I would have loved it as a series finale. It was that final "F*** you!" to Fate that I loved. When it ended and Xena came riding up to the hut to pick up Gab, it was so ambiguous....you didn't know exactly where or when they were. Were they in the "future"? Were they in the present? Were they somewhere else? Was there an Eve/Livia? Were they free of time itself? AS a final ep it would have been freakin' fantastic.

Discord Man also suggested Many Happy Returns. What do you think? Could there have been a better ending? Is the original just fine?

Yes my mind has been buzzing about this for a while, and I have been thinking about alot of things, making a season 7 so they go to Egypt for a while and make new enimies, and we might be able to find out what happened to the other gods like Nemicine goddess of memory,Lacromos god of misery, ect. I guess if they do make this movie we can find out some things. But as of now the When Fates Collide ending would have been be good. Dont get me wrong FIN was good, it just had holes. But no matter what ending,it is still THE BEST show ever made.(imo)

FIN I and II are slowly becoming my favourite Xena episodes of all time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Argeaux,

this topic made me watch it again...and it isnt a bad episode(Xena looks very hot in her costume) and I like that gabrielle takes Xena's Chakram at the end but Its hard to think about Gabby with no Xena...maybe in the movie(if they have one)Eve will be Gabby's sidekick trying to revive Xena.I like When Fates Collide because They ride off together. I know "its been used before" the riding off in the sunset but its better than Xena meeting her end. On a scale of 1 to 10 I give Friend in need a 8. Its not the worst episode and I like it all up to the end.
I just never thought she would die in Hong Kong. I thought the ending would go deeper. I love every episode though and I did buy the series finale directors cut so its not horrible. Just a little dissapointed that it didnt go as deep as some of the other episodes. And maybe have Xena and Gabby go up against Gurkhan instead (As far as I can remember,they never found the real one)

The only problem I have with Fin 1 & 2 being the final eps is they should've let Xena be brought back to life and both of them ride off together on the ship-not just Gab and Xena's spirit. That's my opinion. Other than that-I loved the final episodes. WXF

I love that Xena is dead, dead, dead.

Why, I hear no one ask?

The scene where she is watching the sunset with Gabrielle is the ONLY one that has made me cry in the entire series.

The hugeness of what is about to happen, the finality of it all, would be shallow if Xena was magically whisked back to life.

And how much does it say about our Warrior Princess? She is willing to give her all for what she believes is the greater good. Rock on!

I can understand why a lot of fans don't like the ending. Heh, but I don't like a lot of fans, so I guess that's fair.

To me, possibly a very small minority, it's the perfect episode as far as images used (the 'atomic' blast is awesome), costumes, writing and acting.

And Akemi is quite the nasty little baddie, is she not? Who else betrays Xena quite as callously as she does?

For those reasons, I love Friend In Need I and II. Probably the same reasons why a lot of others hate it.

Oh yeah, and if I HAD to choose another Xena episode as a finale, it would be the wondrous Ides Of March, not the sappy When Fates Collide.

For similar reasons. The episode provides such an emotional pay off for the the set up that occured through Season 4.

And, again, there is the finality of death (although unfortunately it was followed up by the stock standard 'but wait! they're not REALLY dead').

As you were.

Well. Argy said it so well, I'll just shut up. I totally agree with you.

Wow , Argy...Ive never thought of it that way. Nicely said. My opinion is changing some because of this topic. I wish Discord was in the last episode....or maybe a floating talking Discord head.lmao. That would be great! Just so I can see that face again.

i hate the FIN eps so much. Xena suicidal wimp (imo). Bah. Check the campsite for alien pods, Gabby, that's not any Xena i recognize.

i did like "When Fates Collide" a lot, it would've been a better finale. "Ides Of March" would have been a great finale, too.

I didn't have a problem with Xena being dead. My problem started at the beginning of the teaser of FIN part I. The whole thing was overblown, bombastic and emotionally empty. I didn't buy one freakin' frame of it.

I'd have rather Xena met her end in Greece doing something a bit more "mundane"--saving a village in peril or rescuing one baby--that would have taken her to the beginning.

Yeah, WFC was sappy, lol. It's not my favorite episode, but it would have been a better series finale than FIN.

I thought that the return to Asia for the ending was really a Tapert thing, an homage to the source of his creative path with Xena. Even though she was mostly a Greek Hero, she did travel the Xenaverse, and had been based on the female heros in the Asian tradition.

That said, I knew that Xena had to die, because heros always die heroically. And Gabrielle had to live, because she had to keep her story alive. So I don't think that WFC would have been the right ending for the show.

I loved certian things in FIN, most of all I loved the image of her walking around the town in those high sandals they wear with all the high eyebrow makeup. That was priceless and I think of her that way often.

I like that image, too.

Plus the fact that she just looks so damn ANGRY!

I was not happy with FIN for the simple fact of that it was a stand alone episode. They were ending a whole series based on a story that no one was familiar with. It kept you at a distance and made it hard to take in everything and believe what was going on. I also hated the fact that the whole story was based on something that Xena had kept from Gabrielle. This took the whole series back at least three seasons for me. Those are two things I will never come to terms with. With that said, I do agree with Nanzar's idea of the whole homage to the genre. I never quite thought of it that way. It does make me look at it in a bit of a differant light. Thank you for that. This now starts the healing process.
There are so many things they could have done though and I don't think that they went with the best choice. WFC would have made a much better one.

In your opinion.

In MY opinion, had the series have ended with WFC, it would have gone out with THE worst last line in the history of all of Xena.

Even the fine acting skills of Renee O'Connor couldn't help to make 'fame, who needs it' sound convincing.

I do agree that the final scene in that episode could have been improved a bit. I never said it was perfect. It was kinda like they were in the twilight zone when they should have been back to normal after being in this alternate dimension.

Well, I'm in the camp that thinks A Friend In Need was a fitting finale. I enjoyed it for what it was. Though if I'm honest, I probably would've been happy with whatever they went with for the finale.

I'm easy to please

I don't think any episode could replace AFIN as the series finale, simply because they weren't written for that purpose, so there would always be some weak point.
The 2 A Friend In Need are nicely made, well performed, beautifuly shot and are better than some movies we saw on the big screen.
What I don't like is Xena's death - she became a "loved one" and some people don't like their loved ones going to die, even heroically.
How I think it should have been done? At the end Xena would be missing, and the very last scene would be the start of Gabrielle's journey for Xena -
this way both 'pessimists' and 'optimists' would be satisfied.

quote:

Originally posted by Argeaux:
In your opinion.

What? Isn't my opinion fact? *g*

<Ponders going off in a corner to sulk>

Oh topic....um...<desperately trying to think of something else to say>

Even though I hated the whole "Vision" arc of Season 4, Ides of March would have been okay. at least it ended.

quote:

Originally posted by Prof. X:

How I think it should have been done? At the end Xena would be missing, and the very last scene would be the start of Gabrielle's journey for Xena -
this way both 'pessimists' and 'optimists' would be satisfied.

That suggested ending would feel less than satisfactory to this 'realist'. It just wouldn't provide the same closure, to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Smirk Morgan:
Even though I hated the whole "Vision" arc of Season 4, Ides of March would have been okay. at least it ended.

yeah. it ended with X&G floating off to where...heaven? that would never do.

for me, that is. purely my opinion, you know...

quote:

Originally posted by hench-minion Z:

quote:

Originally posted by Smirk Morgan:
Even though I hated the whole "Vision" arc of Season 4, Ides of March would have been okay. at least it ended.

yeah. it ended with X&G floating off to where...heaven? that would never do.

for me, that is. purely my opinion, you know...

That would have gotten an extreme eye roll and a huge exasperated sigh from me.

quote:

How I think it should have been done? At the end Xena would be missing, and the very last scene would be the start of Gabrielle's journey for Xena -
this way both 'pessimists' and 'optimists' would be satisfied.

As nice as this sounds, it wouldn't satisfy me either. Gabrielle would be left alone to look for Xena the rest of her days? I know some people don't like her, but that would be too cruel.

The way the stories of the gods and heros went in those days is that they had a real ending. Someone eventually overpowers them. In all the episodes prior to this it might have seemed as if Xena would never die, that she was never risking anything of value to help others, but with her death we see that she was, indeed, risking her life every day, and that makes the whole series work (-IMO).

You're absolutely right zoom. I'd forgotten about the heaven/angel crap. This selective memory thing *CAN* be a blessing! I'd also forgotten about the sudden dropped character "development" of having Gabby slaughter ten guards or however the hell many it was. Not that I'd liked peacenik G, but I thought the skewering was a little too sudden.

okay, I guess that leaves me with my original (going back four years ago) idea. Scrap FIN and do something with some actual heart and meaning.

YMMV

I like FIN.

I hate hate hate with a vengengance WFC.. if the show had finished there i woulda spat chips.

Also, i really, throughly enjoyed seasons 5 and 6, so if it had finished at Ides, an ep i also love, i woulda missed two seasons.

For all those that reckon ides woulda been a good finisher...

regardless of what you think of 5 and 6, don't you think 4 seasons of xena woulda been a bit short?

If you want ideal enders.. how about sacrifice 2.... gabby falls down a big hole... let's end it on a light note then.

quote:

Originally posted by Pikachu:

If you want ideal enders.. how about sacrifice 2.... gabby falls down a big hole... let's end it on a light note then.

Yes, that ending floored me. I was so shocked. 2 main characters "dying"(or at least I thought) in an episode. And two of my favs at that. that was the longest wait ever for season 4!