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Xena: 20th Anniversary!!!

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07 March 2016, 04:20 PM
xenacrazed
Xena: 20th Anniversary!!!
"One Against an Army"

Xena to Gabrielle when it looks like she's running outta time from the poison:

quote:
"I don't accept defeat. There are always choices. I'm done paying for my past mistakes. My responsibility now is you."


WRONG! Even if her past mistake was just killing one person instead of what- hundreds? then she would still be paying for it til the day she died- died for good that is.

There is no time when one can say they have paid off their debt of murder regardless of how many they have killed. Xena's responsibility is forever to seek redemption for her past crimes. And even current crimes which she does commit.

i blame stoopid writers for her statement as a real Xena would never have said such a thing. It's one thing to take care of Gabrielle but another to say she's done with seeking redemption.

This is why i gave the redemption score of -4 for this ep.

Okay, end of that rant.

More later...
09 March 2016, 04:36 PM
xenacrazed
"One Against an Army"

Notice how in this ep that Gabrielle sprains her leg after a s simple somersault but in the Bitter Suite- during the Gab Drag- she doesn't get hurt after being bumped & hit by boulders & stuff? That's ridiculous!

Still this was a cleverly written ep even if it's closeness between the 2 main characters came too soon after the Rift ended. i think they should have aired it later.

more later...
12 March 2016, 12:08 AM
xenacrazed
"Forgiven"

Xena and Gabrielle try to get back the urn of Apollo with help from Tara.

Best: Much as i like Shiri Appleby, well, it was good to see Tara get the poop knocked outta her by Gabrielle; the redemption issue back in force; Gabrielle invents charades; the parting scene of Xena not being forgiven

Worst: Tara gets better of Gabrielle at the beginning

Redemption score: 9.5- a high point & it makes up for last week's ep

X&G ying/yang score: 7.5, took off half point cuz Gabrielle too vicious in fight near end

Greater good comment: the urn was saved & Tara got her 2nd chance

Diversity score: 5.5

Rating: 8
14 March 2016, 03:56 PM
xenacrazed
"Forgiven"

Yeah Tara is a pest. But Shiri Appleby plays a pest pretty good. Still i was surprised that Xena let her tag along as far as she did. i'm also surprised that Xena didn't see that Tara was still in with the boy gang until towards the end.

Shiri Appleby was much better in "Roswell". i may have to look into getting Roswell on dvd. If it's cheap enuff, that is.

More later...
14 March 2016, 04:42 PM
Free Madness
Ooooh, I loved Roswell! I wanna get DVD's of that too, as well as Buffy, Angel, so many great shows I used to sit and watch when I had nothing better to do in the early 2000's....Razz Big Grin

Yeah, Tara drove me nuts lmao...she was annoying but I love Shiri too! I did like Tara a lot when she resurged in that later Xena ep--something where dancing was prohibited and Xena stopped that silly law somehow...nice ep! Tara had that cool boyfriend, and could dance pretty good from what I remember. Smile

Hubs and I gotta get everything outa storage--my Xena dvd's are in there amongst other things. Razz I can't wait til next month--low on money already. Roll Eyes...

I did like "Forgiven" though. Cool ep for the most part--kinda gut-wrenching when Xena couldn't get forgiven in the end...I forget why that was, but I'll find out when I play catchup. Big Grin




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


15 March 2016, 05:13 PM
xenacrazed
"Forgiven"

Yeah Tara was best in the "Flashdance" tribute ep.

In "Forgiven", TPTB were a bit contradictory about Tara. They had her mean to Gabrielle & pushy to Xena. Then she would whine about ppl saying she was no good & born bad. How could she get acceptance acting the way she did?

She certainly got in with the boy gang & didn't seem down on herself at the first of the ep. Then after Xena & Gabrielle would give her confidence & words that they believed in her, she would sneak off to be with her bad boyfriend. i don't think she believed that bad stuff about herself- i think she was just a user.

Still, she did seem to get a better personality by the time we see her in season 4. i don't recall if she was still a user then. i'll have to wait til that ep comes up again.

more later...
16 March 2016, 04:16 PM
xenacrazed
"Forgiven"

Finally an ep where the redemption factor was big!

How could they forget that the show is built around a mass murderess trying to atone!?!?

Tara thought she was bad or at least tried to say so but as Xena pointed out where bad deeds are concerned, she'd would "bury" Tara.

The scene at the end made up for Xena's lame comment the previous ep about being done paying for past sins. The fact that she couldn't let herself be forgiven by Apollo's urn showed that she knew it was up to her to continuously seek
redemption.

It's too bad TPTB couldn't keep the redemption factor a major theme in at least 3 or 4 stories per season. There is no point during a lifetime when a mass murderess attains atonement. Just ain't possible. Even if she had only killed one person it still would not happen. It's seeking redemption- the seeking part- that must always continue. And for me, this is where the show ultimately failed big time.

more later...
18 March 2016, 07:46 PM
xenacrazed
"Forgiven"

i gave this ep an 8 mostly 2 points off because of Tara being obnoxious too often. Now if Tara had been completely bad or say, just a peasant girl who was really low on confidence- esp. the latter- then maybe it would be better,

Or maybe less Tara and include an appearance from Apollo. Oh well.
19 March 2016, 12:04 AM
xenacrazed
"King Con"

Xena & Gabrielle play a con on some guys who beat up Joxer.

Best: Xena's affection for Joxer; That Joxer didn't fawn all over Gabrielle (not that he had the time for it here); the girl with Joxer at the beginning

Worst: Rafe; Rafe & Eldon reminded me of college kids, not anyone on par with Xena; not sure why there was any kind of thing between Xena & Rafe when there was zero chemistry; watered down tribute to to The Sting should have been better

Redemption score: 0, nothing here

X&G ying/yang score: 8.5, normal

Greater good comment: Xena gets the bad guys & maybe teaches Rafe a lesson

Diversity score: 4

Rating: 6.5
19 March 2016, 08:54 PM
Free Madness
Hey xc have you seen this? Big Grin

http://www.msn.com/en-us/video...=OutCEUS&FORM=BWVOLC

I think it's kinda cool and I also kinda have mixed feelings about it. I'm all about being out of the closet and being who you are and loving who you love...but then there was the element of "mystery" around that subtext that was always fun to see and it kept ya guessing. Plus Xena had those cool boyfriends sometimes, well some of them were jerks, of course. It was fun watching all the jealousy that would happen whenever either Gabs or Xena would fall in love with some guy or whatnot...and then there was Gabriele's jealousy of Akemi in the end, and I KNOW she wasn't just upset about Xena teaching her the pinch! haha. Still it would be kinda cool to see how they work as an open lesbian couple. I hope they make sure to play them bisexual though, cuz they really are not full on lesbians. They definitely loved their men too. Xena and Borias were hot together even if she was evil when she was with him. Xena and Ares had an awesome chemistry too, altho I didn't watch enuff eps to know whether they ever got together for any period of time. Didn't see enough of Gabrielle and Perdicus. Gabrielle and Eli, well, he was her mentor, I don't think she saw him as anything but a father figure, but Xena's jealousy of him was clear as day. Joxer--well he was no threat, Gabs never thought of him as anything but a silly, bumbling kinda brother to her. So Xena kinda went easy on him even if he annoyed the hell out of her lol! Anywho. Bottom line, it should be cool to see the conflict between two people obviously in love, but struggling with their other attractions to men, or women, whatnot...and working things out. Big Grin

Hopefully they'll have better eps too, and if they MUST do a finale...erm, not THAT one. Razz Wink Among other obvious disasters, Gabrielle didn't really show enough grief when Xena died, to be believable. Just mho. Prolly too hardened by then from all the things she'd seen and been through. I so loved the softer Gabrielle better. Wink




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


20 March 2016, 04:44 PM
xenacrazed
Blah. i may not watch the reboot.

1) X-WP was best when it was many things to many people as it was in the first 4 seasons. Many things included the fighting, the redemption, the Greek gods, Xena's inventing things, the tribute eps to movies, the Xena/Gabrielle relationship, the Xena/Ares relationship. Joxer and/or Joxer/Gabrielle relationship, evil Xena, Gabrielle as a bard,
Gabrielle as a warrior (i HATED this), Gabrielle's spiritual quest. Xena's continuing back-story, etc.

2) Personally i hated all relationships on the show. Xena is a mass murderer. Were ppl concerned about who Hitler loved- Eva Braun or whoever? She should not be allowed to have romantic relationships. Friendships, okay, as long as they help her on the path of atonement.

3) That said above- having a relationship defined by preference really ruins any mystery. What made X-Files so great in that relationship is that we knew Mulder & Scully cared about each other by just subtle, mysterious things. Had they marries early in the series it would have removed a lot of the charm & fun (fun in looking for those subtleties).

4) All i have heard about the reboot sucks. It sounds like it will be made for pre-teens. What made X-WP jump the shark with season 5 was the utter nonsense & catering to a lowered IQ audience & not taking the characters seriously. i wish they would do a reboot way darker, all drama, no comedy/lite eps. Ok, maybe one or two lite eps a season but nothing like the garbage they spewed out starting in season 3. No characters like Joxer who had no character development.

It sounds like the reboot is gonna be painful to watch. Just like seasons 5 & 6 of the old show.
21 March 2016, 12:06 PM
Free Madness
I agree on many counts. Yes, Xena WAS a mass murderer, and I always had the worst time watching her evil side. I mean--some of the stuff she did, man, it made me wonder why in the world Gabrielle of all people was painted as her main salvation. Ok, well Xena did want to change her ways, starting with "Sins of the Past." It wasn't totally all Gabrielle, altho there was SO MUCH in that dang show that had Xena professing Gabrielle as some kinda "personal savior." For this reason alone, I can understand a romance blooming--otherwise why would Gabrielle be more special than say, frickin' Lao Ma, who was SOOOO much more evolved in amazing ways than Gabrielle ever was? Hell, if Lao Ma couldn't save Xena, why on Earth would Gabrielle have that effect on her? Even if she did want to change her ways, well...I always wondered why in the world Lao Ma had that effect on her, only to have Xena go right back to killing people again. The situation with Cyan of the Amazons I could understand better because of Alti. Alti totally ruined any redemption Xena might have been able to obtain with the help of the Amazons...

In writing this, though, I missed almost all the episodes of Hercules where Xena was there. If I remember correctly, Hercules and Xena had some kind of romantic altercation somewhere along the line. HERCULES could have had a big effect on Xena wanting to atone in the first place. By the time she met Gabrielle, well, she had done at least SOME soul-searching, so she was a lot more receptive to Gabrielle's purity, and Gabrielle reminded her of many young women who became friends with Xena when she was still doing her killing, innocent and pure women who had an effect on Xena. Like--say, the one in Season 4(?) when Xena went back into the Land of the Dead or wherever, to find Gabrielle after she fell down the hole in that big Dahok standoff. I am so foggy on what season that was, but the "firey hole death" of Gabrielle and Xena's profound grief over that which drove her to "return to a world of darkness I promised myself I'd never return to--but it's the only way I can see you again." Anyway, there was this young girl that was in that place that Xena went to, the one who shunned Xena saying, "You caused me nothing but pain."

There were several women like Gabrielle who could have helped Xena find her way to wanting to atone...and then there was...(cough) AKEMI. That was just over the top. That...just didn't work. But never mind that, the finale really isn't worth considering as having any kind of real contribution to such a great story.

The point is, Xena made SUCH a fuss over Gabrielle throughout the show. Gabrielle this, Gabrielle that...literally, she painted Gabrielle as THE ONE who, in the end, saved her. For this reason, I can understand the relationship going further than friendship. Sure, there was Hercules, but obviously that romance did not last. Gabrielle...she lasted. I can't fathom why Xena would LOVE her so much if there hadn't ended up being more going on.

Yes I can see your point, xc about how Xena shouldn't be allowed to have romantic relationships. But we never heard about Hitler wanting to atone of course...unless you count his suicide with his girlfriend. Xena wanted to be more courageous and actually FACE what she had done, and really do her part to turn her fighting skills to that which would HELP people, innocent people, and save them from harm. The whole thing that made Xena so loved was her COURAGE to get honest about what a nasty piece of work she had been for so long. A lot of friendships helped her get there, though. She had to be thinking of Lao Ma's teachings when she returned to her village in "Sins of the Past," as well as Hercules's effect on her, and whoever else. Gabrielle...she was something special, though, or Xena wouldn't be so totally focused on her as THE ONE who kept her in line, up to the end. Sure, Gabrielle was always there by Xena's side, reminding her. They traveled together constantly, so we can deduce that that was the main reason. Lao Ma and the others weren't in Xena's life long enough to really make a huge difference. The fact that Gabrielle was ALWAYS THERE no matter what, and always saw the good in Xena and reminded her of that...well. Yeah, I can see that making her more special than the rest of them.

Again, I am mixed on this whole thing. People who once did inhuman things who really want to change and learn how to be a fully HUMAN person again..well. Romance is part of human nature, and it stands to reason that that would be realistic for Xena. It would actually work even better if Xena resisted romance with anyone until maybe a few seasons into the show, and then finally allowed it. Gabrielle makes sense as the best candidate for that. Personally, I am all about dispensing with the labels...homosexual, bisexual, whatever. They should just all go away, those labels. What's the big deal what gender it is you fall in love with, toward the end? Lily Rose Depp said it best, when she clarified her "coming out" as sexually fluid. She was trying to tell young people, her age and younger that LABELS should be eliminated regarding sexuality. Hence, the new terminology of "sexually fluid," over bisexual, homosexual, whatnot. Even "sexually fluid" is a label though. Society has placed so many prejudices against human beings for being with whoever they are with, same sex, opposite sex, who cares lol. Animals, however, are known for mating with their same genders as well as opposites...and it's just pure nature, all the way around. You don't see a bear attacking a pair of bears of the same sex getting together, for example. Animals do it all the time, and it's thought nothing of. Only the humans made a big stink about it. For this reason, I think that's why the reboot, for example, is marketed with Xena "coming out of the closet." Lol. It is ridiculous, as are all labels. Wouldn't it be great to see a story where it just HAPPENED, no big pomp and circumstance?

Anywho. My original point is...LOVE is a big factor in helping people evolve, be it romantic, friendship, family, mentor-to-student, whatnot. Xena was raped by Caesar. That kind of trauma can ruin not only a person's soul, but the ability to imagine romantic relationships of any kind. The idea of a romantic relationship even being POSSIBLE for Xena could be an amazing plot line in the reboot, but maybe in the 3rd or 4th season. It wouldn't matter, really if it were a man or a woman. Just the fact that Xena can learn to LOVE in the most intimate of ways, would be amazing, after all she went thru with Caesar, let alone how it affected her.

Anywho. Just thoughts. I haven't read much else on the reboot, but from what you say, xc, it doesn't sound like they would make it as deep and introspective as a story like that really needs to be. Regarding comedy eps and light eps, certainly I think some of that is needed once in awhile but yeah I agree that the original show got carried away with that sometimes. Joxer really did have no character development. If there must be a character like him, make him grow a little bit. Characters need to grow to stay interesting.

Lastly, like I said before, the element of mystery really made the original show work. If they want to clarify it totally in the reboot...it has to be done in a more realistic way, taking into account that ATONEMENT is the point of the whole premise, for Xena to be a believably sympathetic character.

But yeah, from what you said of the reboot and what you've read about it, xc, that probably won't be the case...which is sad. I may watch it a little, to see what they do, but I'm not expecting much. Oh well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Free Madness,




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


21 March 2016, 05:13 PM
xenacrazed
quote:
Originally posted by The Rise and Fall of the Brass Razoo:
I agree on many counts. Yes, Xena WAS a mass murderer, and I always had the worst time watching her evil side. I mean--some of the stuff she did, man, it made me wonder why in the world Gabrielle of all people was painted as her main salvation. Ok, well Xena did want to change her ways, starting with "Sins of the Past." It wasn't totally all Gabrielle, altho there was SO MUCH in that dang show that had Xena professing Gabrielle as some kinda "personal savior." For this reason alone, I can understand a romance blooming--otherwise why would Gabrielle be more special than say, frickin' Lao Ma, who was SOOOO much more evolved in amazing ways than Gabrielle ever was? Hell, if Lao Ma couldn't save Xena, why on Earth would Gabrielle have that effect on her? Even if she did want to change her ways, well...I always wondered why in the world Lao Ma had that effect on her, only to have Xena go right back to killing people again. The situation with Cyan of the Amazons I could understand better because of Alti. Alti totally ruined any redemption Xena might have been able to obtain with the help of the Amazons...

Xena was reluctant to have Gabrielle follow her at first. Eventually Xena would trust Gabrielle's instinct amd judgement as it was more often unselfish & for the greater good. But still, after 2 & a half yrs traveling together, Xena was still able to kill Gabrielle in the Bitter Suite. i don't think Akemi had any effect on Xena- i didn't even recognize Xena in the finale. Xena was far from ready to change when she met Lao Ma but she did have am instance where she might have had things not gone wrong (Borias, Alti, etc).


In writing this, though, I missed almost all the episodes of Hercules where Xena was there. If I remember correctly, Hercules and Xena had some kind of romantic altercation somewhere along the line. HERCULES could have had a big effect on Xena wanting to atone in the first place. By the time she met Gabrielle, well, she had done at least SOME soul-searching, so she was a lot more receptive to Gabrielle's purity, and Gabrielle reminded her of many young women who became friends with Xena when she was still doing her killing, innocent and pure women who had an effect on Xena. Like--say, the one in Season 4(?) when Xena went back into the Land of the Dead or wherever, to find Gabrielle after she fell down the hole in that big Dahok standoff. I am so foggy on what season that was, but the "firey hole death" of Gabrielle and Xena's profound grief over that which drove her to "return to a world of darkness I promised myself I'd never return to--but it's the only way I can see you again." Anyway, there was this young girl that was in that place that Xena went to, the one who shunned Xena saying, "You caused me nothing but pain."

The Herc/Xena trilogy- to some people- isn't considered canon. i dunno, it was poorly written, especially the 2nd & 3rd parts. i didn't buy Xena changing because Hercules saved her or believed in her or whatever. It was too flimsy. Plus we didn't know at that time just how evil Xena was. As for the season 4 ep, "Adv In sin Trade", you're thinking of Anokin. Anokin was never explained properly. What effect did she have on Xena? they never went into detail. It may be that Xena- who never got to have a proper youth because of her village being sacked & her brother killed- looked to younger girls to live her lost life through. i don't think it has to be a given that it's romance. i've known ppl who lived their lost childhood/teen years through others of that age and they were not romantically involved.

There were several women like Gabrielle who could have helped Xena find her way to wanting to atone...and then there was...(cough) AKEMI. That was just over the top. That...just didn't work. But never mind that, the finale really isn't worth considering as having any kind of real contribution to such a great story.

yeah the finale was a forced work featuring unrecognizable lead characters that Rob Crapert had lost touch with. Evil Xena would never had mourned some slut that betrayed her. ha ha!

The point is, Xena made SUCH a fuss over Gabrielle throughout the show. Gabrielle this, Gabrielle that...literally, she painted Gabrielle as THE ONE who, in the end, saved her. For this reason, I can understand the relationship going further than friendship. Sure, there was Hercules, but obviously that romance did not last. Gabrielle...she lasted. I can't fathom why Xena would LOVE her so much if there hadn't ended up being more going on.

i can see how ppl see that but it can also be seen as a sisterly kind of love. Once season 5 arrived & Eve came along, Gabrielle was just an after-thought at many times. She was remade into this Xena Jr mindless zombie thing. The bard was gone. The greater good replaced with greater killing by her sais. Honestly if they had killed Gabrielle of in season 5 or 6 i don't think Xena would have cared as long as Eve was there.

Yes I can see your point, xc about how Xena shouldn't be allowed to have romantic relationships. But we never heard about Hitler wanting to atone of course...unless you count his suicide with his girlfriend. Xena wanted to be more courageous and actually FACE what she had done, and really do her part to turn her fighting skills to that which would HELP people, innocent people, and save them from harm. The whole thing that made Xena so loved was her COURAGE to get honest about what a nasty piece of work she had been for so long. A lot of friendships helped her get there, though. She had to be thinking of Lao Ma's teachings when she returned to her village in "Sins of the Past," as well as Hercules's effect on her, and whoever else. Gabrielle...she was something special, though, or Xena wouldn't be so totally focused on her as THE ONE who kept her in line, up to the end. Sure, Gabrielle was always there by Xena's side, reminding her. They traveled together constantly, so we can deduce that that was the main reason. Lao Ma and the others weren't in Xena's life long enough to really make a huge difference. The fact that Gabrielle was ALWAYS THERE no matter what, and always saw the good in Xena and reminded her of that...well. Yeah, I can see that making her more special than the rest of them.

i see it as a yin/yang friendship. Gabrielle was the opposite of Xena personality-wise for 4 seasons. Then Gabrielle eventually became Xena Jr & didn't have much caring about her. or so it seemed a great deal of the time. i wish they would have gotten rid of Gabrielle either by death or by going home so that we could see if Xena would revert to evil or not. That would have been more exciting than the Twilight of the Gods & the Eve story. At least to me! i don't believe it has to be a romantic relationship for one person to have a strong impact on another. Don't forget, as much as Gabrielle helped Xena, it can be said -and Xena said it- that she hurt her (Gabrielle). That's one reason i'd like to have seen them go separate ways, at least for most of one season. Gabrielle was an ever changing soul and unfortunately because Lucy got pregnant & insisted on filming Xena while pregnant. That's why Gabrielle got shuffled off to the sidelines as Xena Jr instead of continuing to grow. i remember a lotta ppl being unhappy that they ruined Gabrielle just to bring in Eve.

Again, I am mixed on this whole thing. People who once did inhuman things who really want to change and learn how to be a fully HUMAN person again..well. Romance is part of human nature, and it stands to reason that that would be realistic for Xena. It would actually work even better if Xena resisted romance with anyone until maybe a few seasons into the show, and then finally allowed it. Gabrielle makes sense as the best candidate for that. Personally, I am all about dispensing with the labels...homosexual, bisexual, whatever. They should just all go away, those labels. What's the big deal what gender it is you fall in love with, toward the end? Lily Rose Depp said it best, when she clarified her "coming out" as sexually fluid. She was trying to tell young people, her age and younger that LABELS should be eliminated regarding sexuality. Hence, the new terminology of "sexually fluid," over bisexual, homosexual, whatnot. Even "sexually fluid" is a label though. Society has placed so many prejudices against human beings for being with whoever they are with, same sex, opposite sex, who cares lol. Animals, however, are known for mating with their same genders as well as opposites...and it's just pure nature, all the way around. You don't see a bear attacking a pair of bears of the same sex getting together, for example. Animals do it all the time, and it's thought nothing of. Only the humans made a big stink about it. For this reason, I think that's why the reboot, for example, is marketed with Xena "coming out of the closet." Lol. It is ridiculous, as are all labels. Wouldn't it be great to see a story where it just HAPPENED, no big pomp and circumstance?

well, i have to differ on Xena having romance. i think it's fine for her to feel sympathy & compassion for ppl but i don't think she should have romance. Especially any romance that would get in her way of seeking atonement. i guess it's just me. i think it cheapens the deaths she caused and the lives she ruined. As long as she has her freedom to seek redemption on her own terms instead of being locked up in prison, i don't think pursuit of happiness & love should be hers to follow. Yeah i;m a grinch!

Anywho. My original point is...LOVE is a big factor in helping people evolve, be it romantic, friendship, family, mentor-to-student, whatnot. Xena was raped by Caesar. That kind of trauma can ruin not only a person's soul, but the ability to imagine romantic relationships of any kind. The idea of a romantic relationship even being POSSIBLE for Xena could be an amazing plot line in the reboot, but maybe in the 3rd or 4th season. It wouldn't matter, really if it were a man or a woman. Just the fact that Xena can learn to LOVE in the most intimate of ways, would be amazing, after all she went thru with Caesar, let alone how it affected her.

Xena was raped by Caesar? i don't remember that. i think unselfish, empathic love for all ppl would be best.

Anywho. Just thoughts. I haven't read much else on the reboot, but from what you say, xc, it doesn't sound like they would make it as deep and introspective as a story like that really needs to be. Regarding comedy eps and light eps, certainly I think some of that is needed once in awhile but yeah I agree that the original show got carried away with that sometimes. Joxer really did have no character development. If there must be a character like him, make him grow a little bit. Characters need to grow to stay interesting.

Lastly, like I said before, the element of mystery really made the original show work. If they want to clarify it totally in the reboot...it has to be done in a more realistic way, taking into account that ATONEMENT is the point of the whole premise, for Xena to be a believably sympathetic character.

i'd go for one or two comedies a year but they waaaaay over-did it with the original series. i haven't read whether Xena will have been evil or whether she's just yer run-of-the-mill warrior in the reboot. i wish for the reboot they would seek out opinions of ppl who watched the first series. XWP was a diverse show of ideas. It's gonna be hard to duplicate that.

But yeah, from what you said of the reboot and what you've read about it, xc, that probably won't be the case...which is sad. I may watch it a little, to see what they do, but I'm not expecting much. Oh well.

21 March 2016, 06:36 PM
Free Madness
quote:
Xena was raped by Caesar? i don't remember that. i think unselfish, empathic love for all ppl would be best.


I could be mistaken on the rape thing...for some reason I thought I remembered Xena being on the cross in a flashback of hers, and Caesar having his way with her--or maybe them talking about it somewhere. But maybe he just roughed her up a lot, and I thought it was rape. Oh well. Anywho...

Yeah, the Eve stuff was really a pain in the arse to watch. You're right that Gabrielle did get shuffled back during that time. I see what you're saying regarding empathic love, unconditional love for all, etc. I thought the Bitter Suite killing thing made sense cuz of the fact that that was Xena's SON which Gabrielle caused the death of, by secretly setting Hope free and lying to Xena that she killed her. Then, Hope comes back and kills Solan, so Xena blames Gabs for not killing Hope, which would've prolly prevented Solan's death(that is if he didn't die some other way, Dahok or whatever). Motherly instinct is what it is, even if Xena was a crappy mother to that kid. She didn't even want Solan to know she was his mom after all. Xena's intense guilt about that, and the motherly instinct kicking in a li'l late when she's starting to atone, might've caused her to just focus totally on avenging her son regardless of what kind of relationship she had with Gabrielle. But yeah, I hear what you mean. Romance really is kinda irrelevant when you think of it.

But all that dang subtext, lol, I just had an epiphany about that. A goofy, terrible epiphany. Maybe it was a silly fantasy of Tapert's, like some men(not all of course, but some), fantasize about seeing two women get together--even if it's just implied. Roll Eyes In that case, it really cheapens all of it. Lol...Tapert really was inconsistent as writers go--went from writing really awesome stuff to outright sucking raw eggs. Razz He prolly let his personal life get the better of him in parts, being that he married Lucy and shite...mebbee that triggered the subtext(a.k.a. the possible "fantasy") even more. Regardless, in retrospect, the show does work without romance even being a plot line for anyone.

quote:
well, i have to differ on Xena having romance. i think it's fine for her to feel sympathy & compassion for ppl but i don't think she should have romance. Especially any romance that would get in her way of seeking atonement. i guess it's just me. i think it cheapens the deaths she caused and the lives she ruined. As long as she has her freedom to seek redemption on her own terms instead of being locked up in prison, i don't think pursuit of happiness & love should be hers to follow. Yeah i;m a grinch!


Actually I do see your points, as romance can certainly get in the way of important stuff, and atonement REALLY needs to be the point of the whole story. Me, I'm a hopeless romantic, lol, and always was a sucker for a good love story. Wink Big Grin It doesn't really work in every story tho. I gotta catch up on a lot of Xena eps; my DVD's of Season 1 and 2 are still in the storage unit where I put a lot of stuff in when I was still trying to sell the house. I'll just have hubs get them out again. Admittedly, I missed a lot of Xena eps lol, prolly cuz I didn't really get into it until Season 3. I need something more to watch besides Johnny movies tho lol...I've already taken a break from those as it is. Might as well catch up on Xena! Big Grin

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Free Madness,




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


21 March 2016, 07:01 PM
xenacrazed
Xena captured Caesar when she was just bad but not completely evil. They became partners through his cunning and her still being somewhat naive (especially about Romans). He left her for awhile, returned, betrayed her trust in him, and he had her put on a cross and her legs broken (which Lao Ma fixed). No one, not even Gabrielle, could get Xena to not be so focused on Caesar.

Some ppl will argue that Xena's fixarion on Caesar is what got Gabrielle knocked up (raped) by Dahok.
Others will say that if Hope hadn't killed Solan then Callisto would have. Then there is the Alti curse on pre-born Solan that he would never know his mother or father. Does that curse get Hope, Callisto, Dahok and/or Gabrielle off the hook? If there were no Hope or if Callisto never found out about Solan, then wouldn't Solan still have to die before Xena told him she was his mom? Yep. The curse kinda ruined things for certain ppl to feel guilty!

Rob Crapert made a statement when season 5 began that the show was like an assembly line product. That showed how little he cared. i remembering Ulrich being worried about that statement. He had good reason to be considering how bad things got.

i liked the mystery they tried to have about characters on the show. You're right- they had both awesome shows and crap! i always thought Xena cared more for Joxer than Gabrielle ever could. That was the kind of love i liked seeing for Xena.
21 March 2016, 07:40 PM
Free Madness
Wow, that's scary, that Crapert statement. Eww! Why bother even doing it then? What a waste...he really could write well, when he actually did. Being all commercial like that totally messes up great talent. Ugh! I did enjoy the good eps though!

Yeah, I totally missed the Alti curse on Solan. That explains a lot to me right there. Yeah, who can blame anybody, really, with all that taken into account? Again, more inconsistency on Tapert's part that could totally confuse many who didn't see the first two seasons, etc.

I did like the affection and compassion Xena showed Joxer, and others. Yeah...probably in retrospect, that's the extent of what she's capable of regarding love, having been a cold-blooded killer for so long.

I may at least watch the reboot pilot out of curiosity. I wonder who they'll cast as who? It'd be interesting to see. No matter what, Lucy Lawless will always be THE Xena for me! They'd have to get someone totally awesome to replace her...who knows. Either way, it certainly won't touch the original. Reboots/remakes rarely do! Razz




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


21 March 2016, 08:05 PM
xenacrazed
i haven't heard anything on casting. The only other thing about the reboot i heard was that Xena was supposed to be teaching other warriors or guiding them.

Ugh. That is so not Xena. i hope that isn't what they had once planned as Amazon High! That would be terrible!

i'm almost betting the reboot to be all style (hot women, bad boys, x amount minutes fighting cliched fights) and no substance. If what i heard about the show being on NBC- UGH!- you can bet it won't be dark & mysterious.

Too bad HBO or Showtime isn't doing the reboot. They wouldn't mess around with silliness.
21 March 2016, 10:17 PM
Free Madness
Yep, I'm betting that too...style, showiness, special effects, cleavage, legs, sixpack abs, corny lines once in awhile borrowed from old John Wayne movies and fights, fights, fights. Razz

Meh. Nothing to write home about. As for Xena teaching would-be warriors, it almost sounds like it would be an extension of the original, except that--oops! They killed the star off in the finale. Roll Eyes

You are right that it's so not Xena, if they were going back to the beginning of the original, with Sins of the Past, and onward. Xena's trying to get her own head on straight, and is barely even able to do that. How could she teach anybody at that time???

Maybe they're changing the whole story, in which case, why even use Xena or any of those characters? They'd have been better off writing a spinoff with some girl in a future generation reading about the "legendary" Xena(from Gabrielle's scrolls) and utilizing those stories as a way to teach her own students, as well as battle skills of her own.

But no...that would make too much sense. Razz Maybe Showtime or HBO might've thought of that though! Big Grin




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


22 March 2016, 04:22 PM
xenacrazed
If i had my way with the reboot-

All new cast, directors, writers. Lucy & Renee can guest as others (Amazons, parents, etc).

Season 1 would all Xena's back-story. How she turned bad, turned evil. i'd say 80% of her past would make up season 1. The season would end with her changing- seeking redemption- tho not necessarily with Hercules help. Gabrielle would appear at the end of season 1.

Season 2 would be Xena seeking redemption begins. i wouldn't have Gabrielle follow her for several episodes. It would be a big decision for her to follow Xena. We would see some ppl from Xena's past in thus season but not necessarily the same ones in the original show.

i would have more gods- more gods we never saw before. Plus no Hope, no Dahok, no Eve. Solan? Maybe but much different from the original. Alti okay but not sure about Callisto.
22 March 2016, 08:40 PM
Free Madness
Sounds awesome, xc! Yeah, Xena's background needs to be explained in full...and definitely Dahok, Hope, Eve would not be missed by me either.

I was actually thinking of writing some kinda thingie in the Creativity thread actually, a spinoff or whatever, but I like your idea better.

How bout we write this sucker together--just for fun's sake? Each come up with ideas, and I'll put it down in script form in that thread. You can correct me on various facts I may not get right as we go since you've obviously seen every Xena ep there is and I haven't lol. I'll try to get my season 1 and 2 tomorrow at least, that'll help.

I promise, no romance! Wink And no crazy roommate situations that totally messed me up for the story we tried to write last year. I never apologized to you for that. It did get horrible back then, but with hubs back and life having simplified a lot this year, I should be a lot more consistent.

Just a thought, but let me know. Hey even if no one sees it, at least it could work off frustrations about the NBC obvious upcoming fark-up. Razz AND improve on certain goof-ups in the original too! Big Grin




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


23 March 2016, 04:39 PM
xenacrazed
No worries on the story, Kate. i was thinkin about it recently and realized i made a major error in the plot. Then i forgot what it was!
i'd have to re-read everything you wrote and all my notes to see what the error i made was. Or maybe it wasn't an error but a gap in continuity.
i just don't remember...
23 March 2016, 04:52 PM
xenacrazed
"King Con"

This was supposed to be a tribute to The Sting movie but it pretty much was very watered down. The biggest problem i thought was Rafe.

Rafe was like some college frat kid. He was so dry an actor, not very good. There was no chemistry between him & Lucy. It almost seemed like Lucy had to act hard to pretend to stand his character!

Ppl hereabouts would refer to Ulysses as "useless". But i thought the actor who played him did a pretty good job- much better whoever played Rafe. Rafe & Eldon. Ha! Rake & shovel are more like it. Ha!

Still, this used to be my least liked episode until season 5 came along. It aint so bad now considering the nonsense that's comin along.

Maybe if they had replaced Rafe with a woman- Rachel?- the Sting thing would've worked better. And no romance! Smile
23 March 2016, 05:55 PM
Free Madness
quote:
Originally posted by xenacrazed:
No worries on the story, Kate. i was thinkin about it recently and realized i made a major error in the plot. Then i forgot what it was!
i'd have to re-read everything you wrote and all my notes to see what the error i made was. Or maybe it wasn't an error but a gap in continuity.
i just don't remember...


Awesome. Smile I hear ya about errors, it happens to me all the time! Big Grin I'm actually re-writing some of my own novels now to correct some major boo boos on my end lol. Razz

I'd love to get back to that story whenever you'd like. PM me anytime!

Peace out. Big Grin




"People say I make strange choices, but they're not strange for me. My sickness is that I'm fascinated by human behavior, by what's underneath the surface, by the worlds inside people."

~~Johnny Depp.


26 March 2016, 12:10 AM
xenacrazed
"When in Rome..."

Xena captures Crassus to trade for Vercinix from Caesar.

Best: Xena's plot to save Vercinix; New characters: Vercinix, Crassus, Pompey, Mendala; Xena's comments to Caesar; Xena's in the window with the knife in her mouth; Xena in the Colosseum fight; Ultimately it was Caesar not Gabrielle who did in Crassus

Worst: i have issues with the treatment of Gabrielle by Xena but at least Xena owned up to it at the end

Redemption score: 1, twas there but small

X&G ying/yang score: 8, normal

Greater good comment: Xena frees Vercinix but- did freeing Crassus by having Romans slay Syrians go against the greater good?

Diversity score: 5.5

Rating: 10
26 March 2016, 07:36 PM
xenacrazed
"When in Rome..."

Begins with Vercinix fighting an army, winning, sending his wife & family away. His wife, Mendala, looks like a warrioress.

It's too bad that TPTB didn't bring back Vercinix & Mendala later on. The real Vercinix died by strangulation by the Romans after being in Roman prison for 5 yrs.

But that shouldn't stop TPTB from having him & his wife as reoccurring characters. There could have been a European battle against Caesar and maybe they could have brought in Melosa from Britannia. Ok, even if it could never have happened IRL so what?

XWP had so few strong repeat characters that were good not evil. Oh well.

More later...