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On food and water at the superdome:
Here is an exerpt from last night interview with Mike Brown the head of FEMA:

quote:
JIM LEHRER: "As fast as we can," what does that mean as we speak right now? Preceding you, we've had numerous people say they walked across the bridge and they got to the other end of the bridge and there was nobody there, nobody to help them. There were supposed to be buses. The buses didn't show up. It is one story after another. So what does "as soon as we can" mean at this stage of the game, Mr. Brown?

MIKE BROWN: Well, let me answer the question two ways: First, with regard to the evacuation of the Superdome and the convention center, we have had an ongoing supply food and water to there. They've had meals every day that they've been there. They had meals this morning.

We have five trailers moving into the Superdome this evening and to the convention center to provide both water and meals to those people, so they're getting regular amounts of food in the morning and evening in both of those places.

The second part of my answer, Jim, which, I think, again, the American people understand how fascinating and unusual this is -- is that we're seeing people that we didn't know exist that suddenly are showing up on bridges or showing up on overpasses or parts of the interstate that aren't inundated, and that now we're trying to get to them by Coast Guard helicopter to at least get them some immediate relief so we can start airlifting them out.

If there are groups of 40, some place where we can't get those helicopters in, so we have to move them out almost one at a time.


See the whole interview here
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm going to say this...a specific thread is a good idea, although , I think, not necessarily needed *yet*.

Nanzar, I know you're trying to understand and to help, but maybe for right now, just cool out and offer support, prayers, and whatever help you can to those affected.

People are stressed and upset and scared and that usually means tempers are not at normal levels of tolerance. Maybe try to avoid calling New Orleans and it's people "stupid" for whatever reason. I know you mean well but perhaps just letting it go for awhile might be best.

We don't want words said that can't be taken back on either side. I understand and appreciate the effort you're making, but maybe let it be for awhile.


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Posts: 2157 | Location: Seattle, WA | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Sara It's just so much easier to attack a person isn't it, than to try to look at a problem rationally? It happens to be MY way to try to undersand things. That's just what I'm about.

There is a lot of misinformation and condemning the whole human race over this and I'm not willing to join in. I'm praying and doing what I can do to try and get the facts. It's a terrible terrible catastrophy, and we have to try and learn from it. So right now is not the time to judge, because we just don't have all the facts.

quote:
Maybe try to avoid calling New Orleans and it's people "stupid" for whatever reason. I know you mean well but perhaps just letting it go for awhile might be best.

We don't want words said that can't be taken back on either side. I understand and appreciate the effort you're making, but maybe let it be for awhile.


This is what I said:
quote:
Katrina- It hurts my belly, it hurts my eyes, it hurts everywhere. To think of the people suffering with no help in days. To think of the loss of an entire city, coastland, economy, peoples lives (if not life) gone in seconds. And it's got me angry too. I'm angry at the stupidity in the case of NO to continue to live and build in a city with the "big storm" always on the horizon. I don't blame the people because I know it's human nature. But it's just so sad. Not unlike the victims of the Tsnuami, who could have been warned if the TPTB had made an effort to forsee the inevitable.


I did not say the people were stupid. It was stupid to continue to develop in the wetlands- the main protection form flooding, it was stupid to build a levie system that would only withstand a cat 3 hurricane, it was stupid not to have planned an evacuation of every person in that city when they live in a bowl between a lake, a river that floods, and a hurricane zone.

I don't need you telling me to go away. If you people need to yell irrationally at everything go ahead, but I want to know the facts and I'm going to declare them when I find them.
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Settle down there. I didn't see anyone attacking you, let alone me. And we both know from prior experience that when I attack, there's no doubt about it.

It was a suggestion Nanzar. To be sensitive to other people's feelings. People who are FROM New Orleans and the surrounding areas. People who grew up and lived and loved and hurt and rejoiced there. People who are heartsick and angry over the chaos and suffering happening now.

People are feeling multitudes of emotions right now. And they have the right to feel that way. We all need to be mindful of that.

And even if it wasn't the best idea to have a levee system and to develop the wetlands, the fact remains that it's extremely INSENSITIVE to say so. Bleeding hell, are you not hearing that? If you hear nothing else I say, at least hear that. Now is not the time to point fingers and lay blame.

We're seeing people die and starve and suffer cruelties at the hands of others. Can't you be sensitive to that?

If you have to say the things you need to say, fine. Say them here, but have the decency within you not to say them to the people who have/had family there, who had homes, who had a past and precious memories all swept away.

I made a suggestion to give you a heads up before tempers flared up. But y'know, if you're going to be this way, so be it. I don't care if you do post these things everywhere. Whatever backlash you receive from them, it's deserved.


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Posts: 2157 | Location: Seattle, WA | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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if you're refering to me, i've have yet to yel at you, NANZAR in an irrational manner. typically you read my words but gleaned no meaning. so i'll tell you what WILL make me irrational...STUPID FUCKING IDIOTS WHO WANT SOMEHOW TO MAKE THIS ABOUT THEM. it's not about you. nothing you can offer will help except your time or you money. your words are ridiculous, false and hurtful. you try to do someting sympathetic and "meaningful," fail miserably, get called on it and then act like you've been attacked. well, i'm not playing into your little martyrdom scenarios ever again. in a perfect world i would never have to cross your path again.


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You need to change your name to Hurricane Zoom! I've never before seen such selfish self centered people in all my life. Yea I'm making this about me Oh sure I can't possibly understand how the people feel. I guess you really know me. And It's never about you It's never you guys working yourselves up into a lather about what other people say.

I am so sick of you I could PUKE.
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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further proof the world isn't perfect.


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Okay, peeps - I'm gonna rant.

Almost every generation experiences something catastrophic. When these things happen, there is only one certainty - change. Whether these events are caused by man (Vietnam, Hiroshima, Chernobyl), the direct result of ONE man (Pol Pot, Hitler, Idi Amin), or the fury of one pissed off Mother (Pompeii, this years Tsunami or the flood of Huang He) is irrelevant.

What we do from here on out, that's what counts. Do we see things for what they are, see people for who they are? Do we learn from our mistakes? Do we fight a system that doesn't work or do we allow it to continue?

There is one bright and shining difference between the first few examples I listed and the last few. We can't fight mother nature, however, we damn sure can get help to those that need it when she strikes and we damn sure had the resources to better prepare the Gulf Coast for an event exactly like this. That's what has me so damned mad.

Nanzar, I don't agree with you or how you addressed this.

I guess the point I'm trying to get across is that yes, these people knew the chance they were taking by living in that area but do you Nanzar, honestly think that these people had a real opportunity to leave? Not just prior to Katrina, but for the better part of their lives, do you think they had the means to leave?

The technology, resources, and funds are and were readily available to help these people. United we stand my ass! I despise Bush, but had that goofy son of a bitch come out and spoken to this nation with a plan of action, had he addresses us as intelligent caring citizens, had he taken control like a president should I might have even patted the idiot on the back.

Instead, I'm donating to the RedCross, because I trust them more than our own leader. Sorry, this has been a rather disjointed ramble but shit, I guess that's what FC is for.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 
Posts: 1673 | Location: everywhere, nowhere at all | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is ridiculous.

Nanzar, you seem to be getting upset about the wrong things here. The only thing that should be upsetting at this point is that people are dying, people are living without the things they need to survive.

People are still being rescued from rooftops and many of them probably won't get rescued.

Focus on that for now.

The time for politics and finger-pointing is after we've taken care of the people and animals out there that need help.

It's so easy to sit, removed from it all and not think of the human lives that were in danger and say "They should've done this differently!" but all that does is waste time.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Posts: 920 | Location: Iowa, USA | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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i already replied about this in the fiction and poetry thread so i don't have much to say here except

the wetlands are disappearing b/c of the levees which people are saying should have been bigger and better
some of these levees keep the river from changing course over the years as rivers tend to do
therefore the silt is deposited in the same place and not spread around as nature intended
lack of wetlands allows wind and waves from storms to batter the mainland

should TX, LA, MS, AL, FL evacuate the entire coast when a hurricane enters the gulf just in case it becomes a category 4 or 5? in case it hits their state?
how do you evacuate a million people from n.o. and its suburbs with little notice? who will enforce it? who will pay for it?

let me make this simple..
new orleans = poor city
 
Posts: 2723 | Location: la la land | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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You make some great points (Tam is it?) I agree that there isn't enough being done to protect the most vulnerable people in our country. This event, if any good comes out of it, will be not just a tipping point but a bursting point ( to quote a guest on The News Hour) for improvemnts in the basic structure of our society.

As I said in reply to your comment in my poem thread:
quote:
I fully respect how personal this disater is to some folks who have ties to these areas. My heart goes out to you.

I feel terrible that more wasn't done, before during, and after, the storm, to protect people and even places. This is a monumental event in the history of the world. I watched the discussion on The News Hour tonight and it was raw and honest with feeling that the structure of society has crumbled. It is beyond my comprehension to understand the lasting effects but I feel I must begin to try. That is the only reason I am being honest about my feelings and observations.
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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listen and learn


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Clearly there are things that could have been done better, from having the National Guard at full strength within our nation to reducing global warming, which apparently is being partially blamed for the intensity of the hurricane itself.

Whether having a large city built on wetlands is a good idea or not, I can't really say. It doesn't seem to be. When people see this, along with terrible destruction and death and are upset by it, and relatively helpless to do anything really hands on about it, then of course they're going to want to express anger and frustration.

I think Sara was very nice in the way she initially suggested the subject wait a while. But it was, I would think, only a suggestion. Nanzar is a grown up lady, she doesn't have to share the opinion that now isn't the right time to rant. For her it is the right time, and I'm sure for many others as well. People are thinking about the subject now, it's in the news now. The iron's hot now. If changes are to be made to the things that made the disaster worse than it had to be, isn't now the time to strike?

Of course there are people suffering. And it's worse than it had to be. Some of us want to try and change the system so that next time these same people, or others like them, get what they need faster and maybe even have fewer homes and business destroyed. A month from now the people who are states removed from the situation aren't going to be as angry about it, they aren't going to have the fire they do now. I think it is appropriate to talk about it now if one wants to, and to rant. It is, I imagine, more effective bringing change about by saying "look at what's happening now" rather than "remember what happened back when".
 
Posts: 2988 | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My pastor said today, "Now is not the time to try and figure this thing out- now is the time to do all we can to help." I think he was referring to the Christian reaction to sometimes see signs in things, to try and figure out what God is doing, so to speak. I think it was very wise to divert us from that. His wife also quoted scripture to remind us that we serve a GOOD God, and "every good and perfect gift comes from Him."

But it was very hard to worship God today. It was work to raise my hands in praise. I got through it though because I thought of all the people who are stepping up today and giving of themselves to restore lives. I don't have much in the way of financial means to give to this effort. (It hasn't been a good season for us financially. I made four dollars at my yard sale yesterday, so I gave it all. Maybe tomorrow I'll do better.)

Heitie- It was very nice what you said about my comments, my anger, and my need to understand how we got here. That's only one part of what I'm feeling, but I’m glad that you made room for it in your heart.

I do think that as we go through this we have to try to understand all angles. There may be things we can do, fantastic things that will repair our southern shores, and make it safe for people again, I don't know. But I know I want to be diligent in making sure that it's done right, without leaving anyone out of the equation. So that's what I'm praying for right now.
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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sept 4 editorial

Above is a link to a very interesting editorial. I only know of David Brooks from The News Hour because he is on every Friday to talk about the political ramifications of the news of the week. He is usually a defender of the republican position, although he is not a moralist republican, more of a financial conservative. But this artical is very critical of the administration, if not Bush himself. He also wrote about the effects of other catastrophic events on politics and the poor in an editorial on Sept. 1 which is also worth reading to see the historical context of this new disaster. Read that here.

OK that link didn't work. Go to This Page and click on The Bursting Point.
 
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this came today in an email from a friend of mine who edits news for CNN...

Halliburton hired for storm cleanup
The Navy has hired Houston-based Halliburton Co. to restore electric power, repair roofs and remove debris at three naval facilities in Mississippi damaged by Hurricane Katrina.
Halliburton subsidiary KBR will also perform damage assessments at other naval installations in New Orleans as soon as it is safe to do so.
KBR was assigned the work under a "construction
capabilities" contract awarded in 2004 after a
competitive bidding process. The company is not
involved in the Army Corps of Engineers' effort to repair New Orleans' levees.


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 2723 | Location: la la land | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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it's strange to think that i can no longer giggle at that "new orleans!" song from the simpsons without feeling bad...of course that wasn't about *present day* new orleans...

i suppose it'll be like the twin towers thing in time, when homer went there and some guy from tower two said that everyone in tower one were jerks, or some such (only seen it twice - once before and once after september 11 - memory's a little hazy). i still felt saddened by the thought of what had happened after that innocent little cartoon was made, but even so, i managed a smile Smile

i know this isn't the most critical topic of conversation, but it's just a little thing i thought of - how something like this can make even good things (like harmless jokes and laughter) seem bad. i just think that it's sad, is all.


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Email attributed by tipster to "friend at the EPA"....

This is from a friend at the EPA:

We're naming it Lake George, 'cause it's his frickin fault. Have you seen all that data about the levee projects' funding being cut over the past three years by the Prez, and the funding transferred to Iraq? The levee, as designed, might not have held back the surge from a direct Class 5 hit, but it certainly would not have crumbled on Monday night from saturation and scour erosion following a glancing blow from a Class 3. The failure was in a spot that had just been rebuilt, not yet compacted, not planted, and not armed (hardened with rock/concrete). The project should have been done two years ago, but the federal gov't diverted 80% of the funding to Iraq. Other areas had settled by a few feet from their design specs, and the money to repair them was diverted to Iraq.
The NO paper raised hell about this time and again, to no avail. And who will take the blame for it? The Army Corps, because they're good soldiers and will never contradict the C in C. But Corps has had
massive budget cuts across all departments (including wetland regulatory) since Bush took office, and now we've reaped what was sown. It really pisses me off to see the Corps get used by the Administration to shield Bush -- they do great work when they're funded. This was senseless, useless death caused not by nature but by budget decisions.


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh hey, Thanks for the info eyezoom...that sure makes me even more a fan of ole georgie boy....(PLEASE note sarcasm dripping)
 
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not to worry. if anyone recognizes sarcasm, it's me.


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh yea, I knew you would.... Wink
 
Posts: 71 | Registered: 21 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From the New York Times
September 8, 2005
No Strangers to the Blues
By BOB HERBERT
The tragedy in New Orleans did not occur in a vacuum. There is no way, even in the face of a storm as violent as Katrina, that a great American city should have been reduced to little more than a sewage pit overnight.

The monumental failure of the federal government to respond immediately and effectively to the catastrophe that resulted from Hurricane Katrina was preceded by many years in which the people of New Orleans (especially its poorest residents) were shamefully neglected by all levels of government.

New Orleans was not a disaster waiting to happen when the screaming winds of Katrina slammed the city with the force of an enemy attack. The disaster was already under way long before Katrina ever existed. The flood that followed the storm, and the Bush administration's ineptitude following the flood, were the blows that sent an already weakened city down for the count.

The public school system, for example, is one of the worst in the nation. Forget about educating the children, 96 percent of them black. School officials, enveloped in a bureaucratic fog and the toxic smoke of corruption, do not even know how many people are employed by the system. The budget is a joke. Money had to be borrowed to pay teachers.

The classroom environment has been chaotic. About 10,000 of the 60,000 students were suspended last year, and nearly 1,000 were expelled. Half of the high school kids fail to graduate in four years. To get a sense of the system's priorities, consider the following from a Times-Picayune editorial last fall:

"When it was still unclear which way Hurricane Ivan would go, school system employees on school system time driving school system vehicles using school system materials were sent to board up the superintendent's house."

That superintendent left (and not a moment too soon), but the abject neglect of the young remained. Long before the hurricane, the children of New Orleans had been failed by the adults responsible for them, starting in many cases with their parents and going right on up through their teachers, city officials, state officials and a national administration that sees the kids mostly as objects - totems - to be hugged during campaign photo-ops.

Crime in New Orleans is another issue that has gotten a lot of attention in Katrina's aftermath. It should have gotten more attention before the hurricane hit. A great deal of the mayhem reported or rumored to have occurred over the past several days appears to have been exaggerated. But New Orleans has long had a serious crime problem. And it has never been properly dealt with.

A couple of days ago I was talking with a woman named Julia Cass who had fled the flood and settled temporarily in Montgomery, Ala. It turns out that Ms. Cass, a former reporter for The Philadelphia Inquirer, had just completed a paper for the Children's Defense Fund, which is concerned about the effect on children of the chronic violence plaguing New Orleans.

Ms. Cass noted that as of Aug. 19, there had been 192 murders in the city, an increase of 7 percent over that period last year. (You can get a decent perspective on the violence if you note that New Orleans, with a population of 500,000, had 264 homicides last year, compared with the 572 homicides in New York, which has a population of 8 million.)

Ms. Cass wrote that in homicide cases in New Orleans, witnesses frequently refuse to come forward, or do not show up at trials. "The general explanation is that they are afraid," she said, "and with good reason, since the perpetrators too often are not arrested or get out on bail or are never prosecuted or are not convicted. A person who murders another in New Orleans has less than a one in four chance of being convicted."

New Orleans has had high rates of illiteracy and high rates of poverty, and long before the hurricane blew in, high rates of children and families with extraordinarily low expectations. In short, much of the city was a mess, and no one was marshaling the considerable resources necessary to help pull its stricken residents out of the trouble of their daily lives.

Those were the residents who, for the most part, were left behind to suffer and die when the people of means began sprinting toward higher ground. They are the ones who are always left behind, out of sight and out of mind, and I'd be surprised - given the history of this country - if that were to change now.
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Rebuilding a Dream

Time magazine article that takes up the prospect of rebuilding New Orleans
 
Posts: 411 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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still doing what you can to comfort the people effected by this i see.

it's obvious you think New Orleans is just a sesspool best flushed and be done with. funny, building skyscrapers high enough to fly planes into seems stupid to me, but oddly enough they'll be rebuilt. maybe you'll see the upside of New Orleans when you're paying $5 for a banana & your utility bills hit an all-time high this winter...


WHAT WOULD XENA DO?

are you sitting on the soap?

sometimes, you just have to say 'what the f...'

 
Posts: 5103 | Location: Austin Texas, baby | Registered: 22 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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