Nanzar,

Why is it hard to hear that I okayed that dispatch? That seems to imply that...because I'm a Christian, you automatically assumed I would take offense to such a writing. But I suppose that's because you view it as a rape. As Kate has so greatly pointed out, it was not one. And I believe the majority of this board sees it that way...hence the funny. I have no regret in encouraging Shelley to put that piece up. It was one of the funniest things I'd read in a long time. And if I could do it again, I'd encourage her. Simply because I see NOTHING wrong with it. Just don't assume that I'd see eye to eye with you on something just because we're both Christians.

As for Eli, okay...I don't have much else to say there. Thanks for explaining it.

You say that there's a pre-judgment of you because of your faith. I honestly do not see how that could be true. Especially if you mean because you're a Christian. I am a Christian, and I have never been pre-judged here. For the most part, people assume I'm okay with things unless I say otherwise. I believe they have the same view of things with you as well. In my personal opinion, you have been "judged" BECAUSE of things you have said. There's no "pre" about it.

As for all the things you mentioned as to what you do believe (to clear things up)... well... as far as being okay with homosexuals, maybe that's true now. But it was never ALWAYS that way. I clearly recall when you were very adamant against homosexuality, and quite frankly, when you viewed Sara and I with a condescending type of tone...you even said as much to us back in the day, and that's basically why Sara wrote you off. I was tempted to as well, because I don't like being around people who are adamantly against me or our relationship. So clearly, the last person you should be saying such a thing to is the one person you told otherwise...because I would and AM calling you on it. Like I said, maybe things have changed (and even if they have, you have never given anything to contrary -- we cannot read your mind), but there was no pre-judgment here. We viewed things the way we did about you because you gave us reason to.

Maybe you're not a prude when it comes to sex or drugs...but some people live their life with multitudes of sex and drugs because they want to and they're okay with that. It's not because they're lacking something, it's simply because they enjoy it. Maybe people view you as a prude because you have that viewpoint that if they ARE doing those things, something must be wrong with them.

As for the birthday mention... if you're trying to keep yourself from looking pitiful...you didn't succeed. Quite frankly, I remembered your birthday. I knew it was the same day as mine. I just didn't say anything. I rarely do. I simply didn't appreciate that comment, me being thrown in there. Don't blame me just because someone remembered mine and didn't want my day to be any worse than it already was. I won't explain that. People who know, know. And that's all that matters. And I thank them for caring. But don't try to get down on them for that...I won't stand for it, 'cause they were looking out for me.

~Gabber

odds are 10 to 1 Sara's back to her sassy, surly self after her girl's back home a week or two...

also, i just wanted to address the earlier "panties in a twist" statement which i assume was aimed (in friendship???? bah.) at me. please don't mistake my annoyance with you for outrage, Nanzar. you really don't rile me all that much. it much more an "irk" than a "rile". also, know i haven't worn "panties" in at least 30 years...

on further review, i must coment on how, while Sara has seems mellower than usual in this thread, Gabber seems sassier than usual. y'all doing some kinky role playing or something...?

Gabber I have never condemned homosexuality. I have asked questions, but I've never intentionally put anyone down for that. I'm sure you have some vague memory of something I said within the context of my faith that seems anti-homosexual. The only thing you might have a problem with would be my preference in Xena to believe that they were not lovers, and I probably made that clear at one time or another.

As for the birthday thing I only included your name to be funny. I didn't say that to make you feel bad, so please, please don’t take it that way.

I never said other people are empty because they do drugs and have sex. That is simply not in my statement about my own life. I'm sorry it sounded that way. I only meant that I don't glorify those things, and sometimes that can be taken as prudish.

OK so I see that some or most of you were fine with the way Eli was dispatched. I thought it was sickening, and I see a rape there. But you can write anything to look like anything. You claim the words they wrote for Eli fit him and I don't see that. No way.

Brucy, WP9, Tiki, Prof X, Moonshade and XC- - you've all been good eggs. I just wanted to say that.

To those of you who have stayed with this thread, again I thank you. I'm not quite so sure it's because you actually care about me, but still it's nice to be noticed. But I really don't want to continue this discussion. I think you've all made your points, so please, unless you want to come into this discussion and give me just a little compassion and understanding, please, please, leave me alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Nanzar:
I'm not quite so sure it's because you actually care about me, but still it's nice to be noticed. But I really don't want to continue this discussion. I think you've all made your points, so please, unless you want to come into this discussion and give me just a little compassion and understanding, please, please, leave me alone.

I stayed at a distance from this thread for the simple reason that because of my absence from the scrolls I was not able to participate in the Race and do not know a whole bunch about it. But seeing this last comment shows me that everyone was obviously wasting their time talking to you because the truth of the matter is that we do care and if you are too close minded to see that we are trying to give you a little tough love than you really need to open your eyes and take another look. People do care about you. You just don't give them a chance to.
And, you know what? The story was FICTION. And it was in the past. Get over it. Move on.
Great. now I'm flustered.

wonders why i am invisible..

and walks away.

Hey! I am a good egg! Yay me! *grin* Thanx, Nanzar, now I know that you actually read my posts.

I hope you will continue to, 'cause I'll continue to repeat myself: You really, really need to get over this and move on. Really.

I still like you though, and I am very sorry to hear about your family.

quote:

Originally posted by Nanzar:

as the operator of the boards you were the right person to discuss my problems with it.

This is for all Scrollers to understand, and in no way aimed solely at Nanzar. In my role as Administrator I MAINTAIN the Scrolls, eg. set up new forums, but I do not POLICE the Scrolls.

That is the collective role of the Scroll Guardians, as clearly set out in the Scroll Rules:

"6. Scroll Guardians will try their hardest to discuss threads they are about to edit, delete, lock or move, which fall outside the rules stated above, with at least one other Guardian."

If you have a problem with something on the Scrolls DO NOT come to me alone about it:

"All Scroll Guardians may be contacted at scrollguardians@yahoo.com, if you want to privately bring their attention to something on the Scrolls."

quote:

Originally posted by Nanzar:

It has been a very tough year. May 2nd was the one year anniversary of his collapse. For much of this year I really didn't know from day to day how he would be. Sometimes all he could manage was to get up and in a few hours just fall asleep in a chair. Lately, though, he has been able to do more, so I am very, very grateful for the time we have together. I just don't know how long it's going to last, but that's the same with everything, right?

Aside from that, my step-daughter's marriage is falling apart and my nephew, who is 15 now, is driving his mom crazy (I'm serious about that- he has some really tough issues). So, yea, if your saying I might be stressed out lately you could be right. In a way, everyone has been coming to me, and I've really had no place to go myself. I always looked forward to the Scrolls though, through everything, I've always been able to come here and connect and that helped.

So maybe in a round-about way this outburst of mine has been helpful for me. I'm crying now (my emotions are like a mixed up milkshake). It is easy to see that many of you do really care about me or you wouldn't have stayed with this thread. So, thanks for that.

I'd like to stop being poor, pitiful, Nanzar now OK? You don’t' have to do anything special about me. But it would be nice if you could at least remember my birthday next year. It's February 18th.

I suspected you may have been under a bit of stress lately.

I was doing some pruning of Fiction and Poetry last night and came across the poem about your husband's collapse. I'm sorry that I didn't read your piece earlier - I haven't been doing much reading of that forum for a long time.

How about we let all issues die and start again? It would be nice to see you contribute some more around here, and not just in Fiction and Poetry. It would also be good to catch up with you on Instant Messenger once and a while. What is your username?

Oh, by the way, we only forget the birthdays of the people we REALLY like around here, isn't that right Brucy and Ame?

Grumbles that no one likes me, since my birthday was forgotten too.

the shame, the shame.

quote:

Originally posted by Spike, Love:

we only forget the birthdays of the people we REALLY like around here

I must be invisible, Ame ignores what I say.

in the spirit of fair-play and out of a personal understanding for family health issues as well as the many issues involved in rasing teenagers (we all have our crosses to bear, after all...), i'll drop my beef.

Nanzar, you're a good egg too hon. Truly. I hope things work out for you and your family. I'm sending you my prayers and blessings.

I'd love to see you do a Pen Pal thing with someone. It's so awesome, so much freedom, you just work with one other person. i don't know if those who are already working with someone else can do TWO penpal correspondences or not(probably not)....if so, i'd offer to write somethign with you. Like i said i loved our work together. You're a great writer and i hope you do more of it as Argy said.

Take care, if you need someone you know where i am.

Kate

quote:

Originally posted by Sirius Black:
I'd love to see you do a Pen Pal thing with someone. It's so awesome, so much freedom, you just work with one other person. i don't know if those who are already working with someone else can do TWO penpal correspondences or not(probably not)....if so, i'd offer to write somethign with you. Like i said i loved our work together. You're a great writer and i hope you do more of it as Argy said.

Take care, if you need someone you know where i am.

Kate

Kate, for what it's worth, you can do as many PenPal correspondences as you feel capable of. Ask Argy nicely and she might let you set up a special username so you can keep things separate.

Nanzar, we'd love to have more people playing. The more letters whizzing back and forth the better. You can write as frequently or infrequently as you like (Junior Slayer takes For.Ever).


Just post a link to it the Bad Girl's Guide to PenPals.

i (madogis) haven't been around much lately so this all passed me by. now that i've seen it, i'd like to comment (shocked, no?)

let me first say that no, i don't think nanzar should have brought up her issues with the scrolls in a "welcome back" thread. but then, i also don't think that argy should have started a thread in fight club entitled "nanzar's day in the sun ". it could have just as easily been something like "have your say about the scrolls" or "trouble in paradise" (if you wanted to be less formal about it). i mean jeez, you claim you don't want to attack her and then you offer her an "appropriate" place to air her views which is obvioulsy aimed at cutting her down before she even knows it's there. no wonder she's backed off when she still has something to say - she already feels like no one want to hear her opinion and then you go and confirm it!

and mentioning nanzar's husband in here. i don't know what that was supposed to achieve but that stood out to me as the most innapropriate thing anyone's done throughout this whole debate. maybe you were trying to illustrate that you do really care about her and what's going on in her life, but it just seemed pretty low to use something like that as a sort of bargaining chip to prove a point, especially in a thread that has - for the majority - been negatively aimed at nanzar's conduct. did you not consider how upsetting that might be?

as far as the race goes, it's no secret that i had A LOT of issues with that thing. and it wasn't about the fiction, because honestly, i can't remember anything particularly bad happening to my character. it was the mean spirit it seemed to bring out in other people and in myself - someone mentioned "bad blood" and that's exaclty what it was. it was a real shame that the race couldn't be taken as it was intended - a bit of fun - but don't pretend like nanzar was the only one who had something to complain about. people were abusing characters and situations to inflict some kind of anguish on the scroller who played them - pretending it was "all part of the game" didn't fool anyone. so, as i'm pretty sure i said at the time, don't bitch that you got the reaction you wanted.

i actually considered leaving the scrolls because i felt like i was being harrassed outside of the race threads. maybe that was in my head - i don't know, i am a very paranoid person - but it's how i felt. even after i left the race, i still felt like crap.

i tried to work through these feelings with differnt scrollers privately (not at first, i admit that), but it didn't seem to have any affect. i was basically told what nanzar's being told now - it's my problem, deal with it. and i eventually did that by adopting sara's "live and let live" attitude - you don't bother me and i wont bother you. THAT seems to be the only thing that works. it means bottling some stuff up, holding your tongue, but you get used to it and mostly things go away.

until they get brought up again.

nanzar, i do not agree with the way you condust yourself. i have been involved in some very confrontational sites over the past few months and constant bickering is not much fun. i do not, however, think you are alone in some of the things you are saying. while i do not believe that there is a "popular clique" at the scrolls, that deliberately tries to exclude people, (some scrollers are bound to get on better than others and it won't help you at all to throw around unfounded comparisons to organisations like the "taliban", for instance), i do think that some people are just better off staying away from each other.

you might have noticed that i don't comment on other peoples' lives much anymore. i've pretty much learned that i have no business doing so. i'm not a social person at the best of times, so i find it hard to interact with people on a personal level all that often. i find that if i try to, i just end up sounding forced or phoney, even though i don't mean to be. i'm saying this now because i just want to make it clear to everyone that it's not a lack of interest that drives this behaviour, it's a lack of self-confidence. i just don't think you want to hear what i have to say so i don't say it. don't get me wrong, it's obvious to me that people around here like me (or did before they started reading this), or else you would have taken the time to personally run me out. i just think i'm better suited to doing my own thing and staying out of everyone's way. this post is a rarity. i haven't done one like this since the last time i thought i might leave. i'm not sure exactly how i'm coming off here, but i've been keeping a lot of this stuff to myself for a long time. i figure if it's okay for nanzar to take a public beating from everyone else, then it's okay for me to have my say here too. if something's started on a message board then i think that's where it should be ended. i am sick (and this is not necessarily a scroll thing) of people personally emailing me about issues they have with me. if i've written something publically, then i'm quite prepared to have it challenged - publically. i don't appreciate people trying to corner me on my own with things that they don't have enough confidence in to have scrutinized by everyone else. and i think you'll find that that's why nanzar posted that email - i bet she thought that she was being personally attacked over a public issue. i can't even remember the thing so i don't know whether that's true, but i can tell you that that's how i feel when it happens to me.

nine emails - NINE i had to clear off to my junk mail this afternoon by some homophobic bitch on another site. if she wants to be a bigot, let her do it in public! (me issues, just as a sense of where i'm coming from here).

i know what it's like to feel persecuted for my preferences and beliefs, and i think that's why i can identify with nanzar so much. NO i do NOT think that anyone's actually doing that here, but if that's how she feels than i sympathise. it's not pleasant.

i don't know how, but i've earned the status of "the big christian" amongst my friends. strange, seeing as how i have a phobia of churches, have never read more than one and a half books of the bible, and don't belive in a hell of lot of things it has to say anyway (views on traditionally "frowned upon" sexual conduct, for isntance). ok, so i believe in god. ok, so i wear a cross. big deal. that doesn't mean i'm going to run off and try to sacrifice my first-born son to a voice i'm hearing... and i have NEVER. EVER. tried to force my relegious ideas on anyone else (i think gabber mentioned that nanzar was trying to do that. if she was - NANZAR!! DON'T DO IT!! IT SICKENS ME!!). and i am SICK of people trying to do it to me. when i was at uni, i wouldn't go two days without someone pretty much asking me "where's your massiah now??". uhm...i don't know, maybe he's playing golf. what am i, his babysitter??? i believe what i believe, so to use a common phrase - deal with it. (more me stuff...venting here...)

god i hate these petty little fights and people thinking they have more right to an opinion than everyone else. i tried my best to stay out of this for that very reason, but i - as always - just couldn't help trying to make you all see fucking sense!! oooh that was kinda contradictory.... ah fuck it. who cares. it's not like anything else i said makes any sense.

to summerize: while i do not agree with everything nanzar says or how she goes about saying it, i do understand where she's coming from because i've been there too. and maybe, after this, i'll be there again. time will tell.

*exasperated/exhausted sigh*

Madogis. Listining to you. Hearing you. Understanding you.

It always takes two to fight. Not one. Sadely, that is true.

The Scrolls...where the therapy's not cheap...it's free!

Heh.

Persecution comes in many forms.

I don't think I'm far off in saying that most of the people who have commented in this thread have felt that very persecution from family and friends and strangers.

Sorry, that just irked me. We KNOW how persecution feels. We could be sympathetic of that, and maybe some of us are, but it doesn't excuse ill-tempered behavior.

quote:

Originally posted by Gabber:
Persecution comes in many forms.

indeed it does. and as Gabber's said, many of us have experienced in on many different levels. but i don't think anyone here at the Scrolls has been persecuted, intensionally or otherwise. if i have responded harshly, it is because of an innate dislike bordering on intolerance i have for crybabies (i.e. those who either seek out persecution or assume persecution when none is intended). i continue to learn tolerance for those things/people that irk me...

Is it just me, or is seeing Keri all riled up hot or what?



Okay...maybe it's just me.

i'm still not convinced it isn't some kinky role-reversal thing...

*flaunts her riled-up hotness*

LOL

Madigos,
I feel like I should reply to you since you took so much time to express some interesting ideas. I agree that the comments I made in Satachrist's welcome post were inappropriate. It's strange to me that I actually did that. It's as if I felt like I was invisible and no one would even notice. I feel bad for him too, I hope I didn't run him off!

I like what you said about talking about things out in the open. At lease that way everyone who might be affected by the discussion has a chance to add their comments. I guess if it really doesn't have anything to do with the board, a private discussion makes more sense.

Most of what you said came across as understanding and reasonable, so thanks for that. No, I don't think that I push my beliefs on people. But sometimes just saying that you are a Christian can make people feel uneasy. I don't want to have to deny it though, so it's hard to find a good balance.

I don't really know you that well, come to think of it, I don't really know anyone here very well, but the times that I've connected with you and with others has been very meaningful to me. I don't know when it started, but at some point I began to feel that connection start to slip away. As an artistic type, I'm kind of sensitive to energy and undercurrents, so I was feeling it, but I guess I’m not smart enough to know what to do about it!

That's all. I'll get my head together soon. I'm sorry you've felt persecuted lately by others, I hope things go well for you at the other board. I'm sure your comments were well received here.

Throws my hands up in the air in exasperation.

maybe I need my own thread.

Nice skull, Devil!