HI all this is the thread I have decided to create .. so all folks who were NOT Scrollers in 98 can understand why we old timer 'Coots'
seem so Uppity.

1st the voice that launched a thousand ships.
LINXI:

(Yeah its usually 1000 Warships.Comment is snipped from elsewhere)

[Linxi]....truth is the scrolls died a long time ago and this place isn't really home anymore, loads of the real scrollers have left because they got sick of all the shit that was going on here and I guess this is just the final straw, I love this place not because of the *place* but because of the friends I've met here, the scrolls helped me find my best friend and for that I will always love this place, but when it goes to hell in a handbasket like it seems to be doing.[/Linxi]

YaY! heres a refrain from Seraphin :

[Sera}Like Linxi said, love this place for the people. I've been here a long time, I grew up in a way with these people. Linxi is probably the last of my old friends and like she said, we wouldn't have known each other if not for this place. She's like a part of my family and this message board is responsible for that.[/Sera]

Heres a slightly Offended Moonshade:
[Moony]Say, Linxi, what makes a "real scroller"...? I wasn't here when the first Scrolls started. That doesn't make me a real scroller? What do you need to do to be a "real scroller", hmm? Just wanted to know, so I can be one to... If it is at all possible...[/Moony]

[Linxi] By real scrollers, I did mean the scrollers who were here early on. At the first scrolls. They to me are the original scrollers, Others who have just jumped along half way through for the ride are not, such as you. No offence, but its the way I, and most of the rest of us, see it. We grew together as a group, we didn't just jump in an after a week declare we were bestest scroller friends with other scrollers, just to be part of all the funn. [/Linxi]

And heres Zoomy Clarifying the newer scrols Ire:
[Zoom]the whole "i'm special cuz i was here first. it's my only claim to 'specialness' but i must make it nonetheless" thing is tired. some of the coolest people i know (here and in rl) here came in early 2000. i got here as soon as i had comp access at home. [/Zoom]

[Linxi] Wasn't refering to everyone (least of all scrolelrs like u 'zoom) who came after the first board, just merely those who jumped in on the bandwagon and pretty much pissed off all the oldies[/Linxi]

[Sera] Hey, guys, this year I will have been a scroller for five, (count them) five years, and I've more than once been a 'pissed off oldie' Do I think or act like it makes me better? hell no. And neither does Linxi. [/Sera]

[Moony] The important thing is, that this is what makes the Scrolls grow, and not die. Whitout renewal the Scrolls cannot really live, whatever you say!I like it when there are newbies, I really do! And I hope there WILL be more newbies. But there are no scroller that are better then anyone else here.[/Moony]

Brucy. I hope your getting a feel for whatIm driving at here ... these are valid comments on both sides

Now if your an ..Old time scroller, NO topic is complete until Ulrich has had his well-thought out say on the matter...


[Ulrich]
C'mon, folks, this is getting silly.
Ok, I myself get the occsional twinge of sentimentality when I think back to the times when the original one-column scroll's age could be counted by weeks rather than months, and when there where roughly 30 ppl posting, but to derive a kind of status from having belonged to it would defeat eaxactly what made the scroll special in the first place.
Of course, a small group of sworn-in renegades from the mainstream boards still bears a certain romantic appeal for members of the 'old guard' - and it WAS a special group - very intimate, fired up by the 'hottest' phase of the show (the rift was just about to happen), and some very odd-angled and unusually talented people amongst them. It was a one-off situation - more luck than anything else.
BUT - and this is the only but that really counts today - memories and sheer coincidence shouldn't feed whatever hirarchy within the scroll community.
Seen like that, Herc would be the grand ole sorceress and Brucy the grand ole wizard of the first hour, Alan, I, XC, Linxi, Tam, Ame & Sera their cardinals of the second hour, Argy, Pandie... etc. governors of the third... and so on.
That would totally defeat what made the scroll what it was at least until a few weeks ago.
The scroll's unique strength always was that it could soak up some of the most diverse, challenging and special talents as well as spirits I've encountered, EVER. Most of them just happened to arrive later than I did.
So what?
It doesn't spoil my vain memories of "We few... we happy few... we band of sisters and brothers". On the contrary, it proves that it wasn't just a one-year-wonder.

But times have changed.... Xena is a myth, now.
Threads like in the old days simply wouldn't trigger the same responses as they did then.
Threads like "What's your fav episode?" where safe bets to spark off MAJOR discussion threads, then.
Of course they wouldn't be now.
Does that make the current scroll community less special?
Of course not.
I realize that it's especially painful for the old guard to let go of that feeling to have been there when 'things were happening', but that's an illusion, really.
"Things" now happen as much as they did then... they just got nothing to do with Xena anymore, but with a lot of her echoes.
So, the board had to slowly change its face - widen its scope - no matter how unique the original spark proved over the years. Who knows when there will be the next true watershed ruffling the feathers of the establishment?
Praps it'll be another decade before a mere 'campy Fantasy show' will rock the set ways again.
Xena has proved far stronger than even most of her fans are prepared to see.
The media landscape is virtually awash with more or less thinly disguised clones of the first true 'kick-ass chick' since Ripley did her first and lonesome steps into the world to kick some Alien butt.
Established culture is a slow learner, and it bears more steps back than forward - hence most of the Xena clones being MUCH less challenging and much more boring to the system than the 'uncomfortable' original.
The scroll didn't echo that. She gathered an incredible amount of special people during each year of her existence - each one bearing a new spark to bump-start the scroll when it was in danger of nodding off into blissful slumber on all too well-known cushions.
I'd take the liberty to get VERY pissed if anyone would, for instance, rate Chiana's contributions 'lower' than any of the 'old guard's'.

Yes, I'm pissed.
Pissed that - for the first time - stupid, artificial borders are being drawn between people who shouldn't be apart.

tight-roping
The Xenatizer[/Ulrich]

Yet..???

[ January 09, 2003, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Brucy Braless ]

Ok these are Brucy's thoughts:

[Linxi]....truth is the scrolls died a long time ago

I Have often felt this way too...but sometimes this place comes roaring back full of thoughtful post & polite behavior..& its wunnerful & stuff again.... for a bit

[Sera}Like Linxi said, love this place for the people.

Those who werent here cant really understand how great it was at first.Eeveryone was a Special person...Really!!!
NO shitheads...
You could post as ANYONE in the thread-handle.
Only 1 troll abused the names of other scrollers ..
there were NO MODS & no need... at first
NO log in...No registration...
I could have posted as Zeus himself..& no one woulda been the wiser.. or minded it much...either..

[Moony]Say, Linxi, what makes a "real scroller"...?

Well glad you asked lil Darlin...

in mid 1998 we had afew 16-20 year old young ladies who posted with intellect & wisdom beyond their years....they were fun & sweet & polite
Fast forward to late 99 & 2000 & 2001
yadda yadda yadda
We have a bunch of late 20s & 30 somethings that post like nasty ill mannered spoiled little children

So you see if you werent here ..you CAN'T know the Nirvana we all miss...

[ January 09, 2003, 01:42 AM: Message edited by: Brucy Braless ]

I'll continue

[linxi] We grew together as a group, we didn't just jump in an after a week declare we were bestest scroller friends with other scrollers, just to be part of all the funn. [/linxi]

OK the first part is true the second part is just a bit Harsh..LOL

[Zoom]the whole "i'm special cuz i was here first. it's my only claim to 'specialness' but i must make it nonetheless" thing is tired.

Well dear, you cant know online heaven until youve been there
in all fairness the Subtext community is probably the closest thing remaning that has any resemblence to the original scrolls . a bunch of people who know each other really well & cant wait til tommorow for more of each other..!THAT is how it was..

[Moony] The important thing is, that this is what makes the Scrolls grow, and not die. Whitout renewal the Scrolls cannot really live, whatever you say!
I disagree Most of the changes have been to the detriment of that original first 6 months..Chris Brown & Buccys fractious arrival maybe being the most glaring examples..

I shall move on to Ulrichs comments but I need a break first..LOL
I hope all can look at this as a friendly discussion.. about then & now & the in between...

Hell Brucy, I remember back to the 'original board'. Yes, though it may not seem so - I was there too.

BUT, some of us have a little different memory. Truth is, I was kinda intimidated and wouldn't post. I lurked for months. The "oldies" (who had really only know each other for a few months or weeks) seemed so familiar with one another, that as an 'outsider' I was afraid I wouldn't be welcomed.

Anyhoo... I don't remember the date I finally posted, but not long after, the format changed.

Just note - there are some of us around here who know how it was 'back then', we just might not be as... how should I put this...
boisterous as others.

Hay, ya know Ulrich (an i think argo) were at the original scrolls...

I, too, remember the old, old board but like Shawn was a little shy and intimdated (unnecessarily, it turned out) to post.
When I finally did start posting (in 1999)I just asked a couple of questions about my upcoming travels to NZ and OZ. I found not only a welcoming but a helpful and warm group who not only gave me Oz travel trips but began to set into motion a plan to meet that next year when I was there. I belonged.
I'd like to think that a newbie would have just as positive experience now. I think the fact that there are newer scrollers-even ones who came along after the XWP finale- willing to post in threads like this and defend the current Scroll community is a good indication that we're doing okay in that respect.

I agree.

Did ANY of you actually bother to READ what I wrote ..??
Granted its long...but its best if you Know what Im talking about before you tell me off isnt it..??

This Wasnt About arguing or fighting or defending


I HAVE been on both sides of this Isue ,, tho obviously not here..
I perusea Certaqin newsgroup or 2 .. & I watch old-timers there ..bitch about how those NGs are not what they used to be,,,when they Seem fine to me ..

but then I really dont know how they were before I arrived, maybe they were even better.

THanks for replying
to you dunno what..LOL

[ January 12, 2003, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Brucy Braless ]

Lila... i still remmeber emailing you and telling you stuff about Oz, although i had previously barely spoken to you.. but by the time you went to NZ and then got here, i felt like you were an old friend.... Then me and argy got to play tour guide barbie, for you and QB, we had a great day... when y'all coming back down yonder?
*G*

Ame, I know! I got replies and travel suggestions from you two, Lor, Eirene, besotted, errr... I forget who else but there was QUITE an Aussie posse at the time because it was close to Mardi Gras and Xena float plans were underway so everyone was posting!
Those posts also led to chatting with Brian about his travel plans and eventually meeting up with him and his wife in Christchurch during our trip as well as the beginnings of a friendship with Shawn cause she was planning a trip too. As for coming back, QB and I talk about it all the time! I'd love to as soon as possible but I think it's a couple of years (and quite a bit of dinar savings!) down the road. Rest assured, if I hit the lotto I'll be on the first plane to the Southern Hemisphere, though!!!

And Brucy, no worries- I read your post and saw that you were presenting both sides. I was just pointing out that the board's different now but still rocks!

[edited for spelling ickiness]

[ January 12, 2003, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: lila997 ]

I see your point, Brucy. I do. But, the reason to me being offended is that in my mind everybody is a skroller here. No one is worse or better then anyone else.

And on the feeling-welcome-thing... I didn't when I first came here. I lurked for a LONG time to. When I started to post, there were only three other skrollers that made me feel welcome. And, sad to say, sometimes I still feel like a newbie. Silly, hu?

Alright... I'm gonna step up and speak from the perspective of someone who hasn't really been around too long. I've only been hanging around for like the last year and a half or so. I'm not going to pretend anymore that Linxi's comment didn't offend me.

When I made my first post at Tom's scrolls, people were pretty welcoming. I don't post much because I usually don't have too much to add to the conversation. Therefore, I don't interact with a lot of you, but I certainly hope that I've displyed semi-adult behavior when I have posted.

I do lurk and I do read almost everything posted. I respect everyone's opinions no matter how much I disagree with them.

I know some scrollers in real life. I'm really good friends with lila and QB. I went to AP's wedding. I've likely met a lot of you at conventions and you don't even realize it.

With all that said, am I truly a part of this community? Have I earned the title of scroller??

Maybe I just don't have the tolerance for a bunch of crap, but all this "old scrollers are real scrollers and new scrollers aren't" stuff is really wearing on my nerves. This is the kind of thing that makes me want to pack up my toys and go home. I can't say if the 'old' scrolls were better or the 'new' scrolls are better. This is all I've ever known of the scrolls and it USED to work for me. Lately some of the attitudes have started to change and it's not so fun anymore. Why even attempt to be part of something if I'm never really going to be a part of the community because I never posted, visited, or remember the very first scrolls??????

I can't speak for all 'newbies', but I can speak for myself. If you want the scrolls to remain a place where people don't feel intimidated and a place where people feel welcome, stop acting like a bunch of high schoolers and putting people in little cliques according to the amount of time they've been here. THAT, my friends, is what intimidates people. Embrace EVERYONE - new, old, semi-new, whatever. Recognize them ALL - from post one - as a scroller until they prove themselves otherwise. If you don't, you might very well miss out on bringing someone in who really has something to contribute to the community.

Brucy, you say that this post wasn't about defending or arguing or whatever, but it was obviously posted to provoke some thought. I think it's more valuable to earn the respect of the members of your community then to have been one of the first people to be a part of the community. I'm sorry if anyone feels like my post was made to generate argument or was disrespectful, but this post is MY thought process on this whole matter. Appreciate it, hate it, I don't care, but I certainly hope - even though I've only been here a year and a half - that I've earned the right to have it respected.

Arista--well said indeed

Brucy--my response is probably directed more to the passages from Linxi's post that you cited than to you. IMO, that post put me an a defensive position--defending the validity of EVERYONE's Scroll experience.

Brucy, eyezoom, Shawn, Linxi, lila997, Ame, Moonie and Arista you are ALL Scrollers.

It says so under your name.

[Well, except for the "Sidekicks" and "Scroll Guardians", but we can include them anyway, hey?]

Well I'm glad I found this thread this arvo cause I've only been back scrolling a few days and this morning when I was checking out older threads in Fight Club (trying to work out where all the scrollers were.. don't worry up to date now) I was ready to go on another six month hiatus.

Amidst all the 'polite discussion' in the "Buccy's Hack" thread you would think Linxi's and Moonshades few posts would pale in comparison but that was what grabbed my attention and made me wonder why I came back to the scrolls.

What Arista said was very similar to what I've been thinking, with the exception of people we've met of course. I'm not going to elaborate any further on it, she's said it well enough.

Scrollers are scrollers, some are more into it than others. My gripe with the whole old scrollers=real scrollers is that certain (ok this is kinda direct so try not to take offense Linxi its how I feel) so-called 'real scrollers' pick and choose who's threads they respond to, who's posts they acknowledge, and maybe it is because there is a class division (in their minds) between the scrollers that they do this but personally I think that makes them less of a scroller and more of an elitist poster and frankly not worth worrying about.

That being said like Arista I respect everyone's opinion and hope that mine is received the same way. We can take offense to each other from time to time, its inevitable. As for elitist posting most of us are probably guilty of it now and then but those who then turn around and make a point of it need to think about whether its worth upsetting people over, and whether classing yourself as a 'real scroller' really makes you less of what being a scroller is all about.

now can someone explain to me what MEEP is cause I have no idea?

I'm not an original scroller in most scrollers' opinions but I feel like one.

Hmm, methinks my post which was directed at a FEW scrollers has been taken to a whole nother level. I love all scrollers (yes everyone here IS a scroller, i wasn't denying that) yet, if attention was paid to what i'd actually said in my reply to Moonshades response, I was merely meaning the scrollers that pissed me off were the ones who automatically jumped on the "i'm best buds with..." bandwagon without actually being at the scrolls anytime. I know that people make friends real quick here and thats great, really. Still comment about people not being real scrollers was aimed at a certain "threesome" which I (and other scrollers) got sick of after a day of their "i'm bestest buds with so-an-so" posts. THEY are not real scrollers, if they think they can come here for a week and suddenly have a best friend they would do anything for, they're just people who want to get in on our funnhouse cus they want a piece of this place. OK so there's nothing wrong with that, but when you do what said "annoyers" did then that will piss off oldies.

annnnnnnnnnd for the name revealing, if you haven't guessed it! The scrollers I was refering to were "SailorMars, CorXena and (then, but not entirely now) MoonShade"

*sigh* Y'all have to admit that episode was excessively annoying.

So now all you scrollers complainin can get your panties outa that bunch

...settled?

The fact of the matter, Linxi, is that you pulled an "open mouth, insert foot".

If your original comment was direct at only three people, then you should've made that clear. You didn't. Therefore, your comment was taken as being directed at the group as a whole and people reacted as such. You clarified, but I think your last statement - and I'm gonna quote here

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linxi -
So now all you scrollers complainin can get your panties outa that bunch

...settled?

---

- was a little uncalled for. That's not the best way to smooth things over with everyone.

I'm not pissed at you and I'm not attacking you. I want to be 100% clear about that.

Linxi you were obviously talking about Moonie,SailorMars and me! That's what you said!

BUT..you also said "I was merely meaning the scrollers that pissed me off were the ones who automatically jumped on the "i'm best buds with..." bandwagon without actually being at the scrolls anytime!"

Sorry, but you're wrong! I was always at the scrolls as was Moonie!(and as you can see we still are here - more often than you!)
As for SailorMars...she didnt have a comp on her own and couldnt be online as much as I!

I had a long talk about that "best scroll buds" thingy with Seraphin a long time ago and she confessed that it hurt her a bit that she and you(Linxi) suddenly werent the "best scrolls friends" anymore! She said that she'd felt as if you guys had been replaced by Saily and me! I told her that's nonsense and we settled it!

Obviously you're not over that yet! Sorry bout that!

its a message board. not parliament.

Always: {Adverb}- Word people use to try and make like they've been around longer than they have to fit in.

And yeah, I was always a bitch..lol