no worries there Argy, poaching an xc is only legal in Indhickiana, not online. Many diners hereaboots likes to serve poached egg & xc for breakfast. That's why i have to watch out for traps when prowlin the neighborhoods for future xc wives.

anyhoo, i'm in "the rift" arc of season 3 now. This is my 2nd time with season 3 dvds & i dunno why i skipped the interviews & video commentaries til now. Glad to see captions are with these dvds now as the background noise often makes it hard to understand what's being said. Background noise on the dvds and them future xc wives tryin to escape heehahee.

Saw "One Against An Army" this week. That line Xena says about being finished paying for her past- HA! It was said during duress yeah but still it shoulda been cut.

anyway, still watching Xena & lovin it.

Finished season 3 this weekend. Happily-diddily-do with all the eps. Only downers were the sound quality of the season 1 & 2 dvds and some of the interviews with TPTB, espesh Steven Sears. i don't buy his trying to explain the poor season 5 character "development" in Gabby with stuff happening in season 3. Anyhoo, on to season 4.

"Adv In Sin Trade" Pts 1 & 2 tonite. Great eps, really psychedelic looking. Deep, complicated stuff with some issues that never really got resolved.

i love season 4 but am sad as it's the last full season of Xena i like. *sigh*

Hmmm...why did the son of Hope & Ares turn out to look like an overgrown porcupine? The whole Dahok thing ended wrong, me thinks. i'd rather have seen Hope & baby survive but off screen, and the Destroyer would be like a goofy Joxer type who really has evil intentions. Maybe they'd bring him out in season 5 instead of preggers Xena silliness. i dunno but Dahok turned out a dullard.

Ok, I'm curious about the relationship between Hope and Gabrielle. It seemed to me that throughout the entire seasons that played very little with the fact that Gabrielle still had love for Hope. They went all out with Hope wanting a mother, but Gabrielle's feelings were stiffled, we see when Gabrielle is ill near the last season and is talking to Hope and Xena begins crying, but I would have loved if they had played more with those feelings Gabrielle had with sacrificing her daughter.

I also agree (with above post), but I kinda threw that off as Hope not really being human and being able to take whatever form she chose, so I thought maybe because of her origins her baby just had those in her genes and didn't have that same sort of power. And that would have been interesting because the destroyer seemed really 'emotional' and I would have also loved to seen that played with more. So all I can do is daydream these days >.>

About Gabby & Hope: i think the key is in your saying "Gabrielle's feelings were stiffled". This seemed to be rule of thumb about Gabby in seasons 5 & 6. She essentially became Xena Jr, practically forgotten to pregnant Xena, annoying Eve, the Bad News amazons (they went downhill so quickly after Ephiny's death) and some overall poor writing.

i see your point on the destroyer looking as it did. But still, in retrospect, i'd love to have to seen the destroyer be a normal looking child in "A Family Affair" and survive- but not to X&G's knowledge. Then the destroyer ages as quick as Hope did, and becomes Eli. Eli deceives X&G by being a healer (as he was) and part of his plan is to cautiously bring about their deaths (which he had a hand in). Then while X&G are fighting the heaven-hell war, Eli/Destroyer takes over Greece & other countries. After the amazons resurrect them, it's up to X&G to stop Eli. No preggers Xena- they film around Lucy's pregnancy without messing up the character & also no Eve. Ha, that's as far as i've got with my wishful fantasy.

Watched "Locked Up & Tied Down" & "The Crusader" this weekend. Excellent stuff...again!

i've always liked X&G equally. During the first go-round of watchin XWP way back when, i had big crush on Xena/Lucy as well as many dreams about her. Now on watching the show again, it's Gabby/RoC that i luvs & dreams aboot. i dreamnt about her twice this weekend. The best dream was when i had this brand new house place n Renee decided to move in with me. Yay! i wasn't sure why she did that or how she even knew me, cept maybe she read the scrolls. She had some friends with her n told 'em she'd be ok with me. Her pals all looked like her kinda- like they were infatuated with her & decided to look as much like her as possible. Anyhoo, RoC is a new xc wife yay (hey a guy's gotta dream eh)!

Locked Up and Tied Down is one of my favourite eps.

I first watched it soaking in a spa up at the Blue Mountains, sipping champagne. Bliss.

Gabrielle is wearing one of my favourite costumes - that one where she dresses as the healer.

I love the scene with Xena chucking rats with her teeth and I love the fact that one of the inmates calls Xena a "merduhring butch" in a broad New Zealand accent.

It's just an interesting story to me.

i like Gabby's healer outfit too!

This weekend i watched "Paradise Found" & "Devi".

I wasn't crazy bout the India eps first time round but now they're what i look forward to. PF i once liked best for Xena's feral state but now it's for Gabby in her yoga outfit *drool*. ok, the ying-yang thang here is excellent, it sums up the essence of the X&G relationship for me in what makes the show work.

Ya know, i often wanted Eli to be secretly evil, fooling even Xena. Someone who wasn't a fanatic like Najara but who also influential for Gabby's spiritual quest/healer thing- but eventually brought them doom & destruction. i loved Gabby in "Devi". i just plain love dat Gabby!

Moving along in season 4.

Watched "The Play's The Thing" last nite. Didn't care a whole lot for it though Gabby looked mighty fine. It was just too silly in parts.

i did like "The Convert" more than i previously had. i'd forgotten Najara's fate. Did they really expect to bring her back again? oh well.

Finished season 4 last nite. i still think "Ides of March" & "Deja Vu All Over Again" shoulda been the series ending eps. Gabby gave up her way of love to save Xena but why was there no regret & remorse for killing those Romans who were only following orders? The dvd set has a buncha extras following "Deja Vu", so it looks like another couple weeks before i hit the dreaded season 5.

Started on season 5 tonite.

Xena has jumped the shark, and the shark has bit the eps!

"Fallen Angel" & "Chakram". i think Callisto should've stayed outta the show after the end of season 3. Making her an angel was ridiculous. i think she was evil even before Xena came along.

Didn't like the X-G fight in heaven. Seemed outta character.

why did the chakram break when hitting Xena's spine? Solid rock never broke it so why flesh? The chakram story was never told satisfactorily.

Worse of all, i hate how they changed Gabrielle's character just to fit the series when Lucy got pregnant. Phooey. Lemme see: at the end of season 3, Gabby grabs Hope & jumps in the pit to save Xena. This leads to Gabby's spiritual quest causes she feels lost.

At the end of season 4, she kills a bunch of Romans who were only doing their jobs, then she & Xena get crucified. Then they have this epic battle in heaven & hell where Gabby forgives Callisto. Then she & Xena are resurrected. Then she becomes Xena Jr, picking up sais & hurting people left & right. Okeeeee. i. Don't. Buy. It. At. All. Phony characterization just to have action in the series when the main star is pregnant. Personally i think Gabby would have been more freaked out after everything that had happened beginning with the Roman soldier massacre & headed home for awhile. i think she would want to re-examine the lifestyle that lead to her death & find a different way.

Meh. If only they'd delayed S5 til after Lucy had her kid. And got different, better writers.

Tonite:

"Succession"

3 eps into season 5 & i've reached what to me is the best ep of season 5. Boobican -er Mavican, the "Ladyhawke" tribute- nice stuff though it seems more appropriate for late season 3/early season 4.

"Animal Attraction"

In watching Xena again in ep order, this ranks as the worst ep yet. Of course there are upcoming eps that are even worse. Bad, embarrassingly bad & it's stinky diaper rash like this stuff that makes trudging thru season 5 very difficult!

"Them Bones Them Bones"

Some okay ideas here. This would have been better without pregnut Xena story (like a preg amazon instead). Shoulda ditched Amarice long ago. They didn't even bring forward any new amazon characters & as we know, TPTB ruin the amazons later in season 5 & make most of them idiots in season 6.

"Purity"

Pathetic, boring, embarrassingly bad rip-off of "The Debt" from the lousy Herc writers. Tapert, was you on drugs for letting this crap through?

-I didn't like Callisto as an angel (however) I did love the peace that came to her. I was very angry however when Xena returned and they wrote her and Eve (Callisto's spirit) to be at war with one another. I disliked the Eve/Eli play, I wanted Callisto to heal. I know that if they didn't do that way they would have kept finding ways to have Callisto die or do stupid stuff, they even had the whole 'sister' thing they wanted to play on. But I believe that would have been on hercules or something (I hate cross overs, then I have to buy them lol).

All and all I made peace with it because Callisto made peace, and even though I didn't like the idea of Eve I made peace with the fact that in this life she was a healer whereas in her past life she wasn't.

(-I also didn't like Xena going to sleep for 25 years. I didn't like the zoom at all. Would have been cooler if Eve was kidnapped or something and taken to some parallel universe or dimension. That would have sped up her growth, or if she drunk something or something happened that made her grow up quick etc. The whole point of the zoom was to get the baby out of the way. I think it could have been handled differently and I'm sure in an alternative universe it was (wish I was there), however when I first saw the episode it was 'hurry up and make peace' and lets get back on track. Who knows maybe it was the baby that broke or made Xena. After that they couldn't even really bring Callisto back (and if they did she'dve been evil).)

-I don't believe Callisto was evil before Xena came along, and there is contrary evidence to suggest that. For example the archangels said that had Xena not killed her family she would have turned out right. Also remember the underlying theme of the movie is people turned bad through some tragic event in their life. But then of course this is someone who LOVES (more than loves) Callisto and villains and actually doesn't believe in the whole good/evil. Everyone has the ability to be good or evil we're just waiting for the right or wrong situations to bring it out.

-I was angry how they made Gabrielle's child a demon but they made Xena's child an angel. I was surprised that didn't cause a rift between them, but it did always emotionally effect Gabrielle, she seemed to have a distance between Eve (esp. after the Joxer event). She never really warmed up to her because perhaps deep down she wanted her to be evil and Xena to kill her like Hope. She has a moment where she talks to Hope and for a moment Xena seems to crack. I actually think in the show Xena's personality never allowed her to be wrong etc. and since we're seeing it through her personality and feelings and Gabrielle's love we don't have the whole 'you're suppressing me' feeling.

-No the Chakram story 'was' never told to most peoples satisifaction. Perhaps had the story been allowed to live on we would know now. This is what we know. 1.) Xena has a Chakram that is of the Gods 2.) Callisto could wield the Chakram (so there was a secret to it, perhaps having a dark soul or tragic past and or lots of anger to extreme). 3.) If you hit Xena with the Chakram it breaks (Callisto who could wield the Chakram hit Xena, anger against anger, power against power) when I look at it that way it makes perfect sense. 4.) When Xena comes back the fact that the Chakram is broken erases her memory. So Xena's soul and the Chakram must be intricately connected esp. with her path as a warrior. 5.) The fact that Eve can hold the Chakram to me doesn't mean much without Callisto's soul.

-I do buy the end of Season 4. I enjoyed Gabrielle's development and glad she discovered her way wasn't the path of peace, that was a crucial event for her to find herself and realize why she does with herself. Her jump to action was possibly an excuse even without Xena's pregnancy she would have fought, she was heading that way anyway. The only other thing that may have happened is her becoming 'Eve' for Eli and I hate peaceful angelic holier than thou characters. (I also hated the story of tragic event turned bad, and not focusing on anyone else who had a tragic event and didn't turn bad. But it is what it is and I do enjoy Xena.)

-I was angry for a moment about Lucy's pregnancy (after I realized how much would have changed had she not), and how much it affected the storyline. I hated the destruction of the Gods and the birth of the '1' God. Especially in Greece (They still have a lot of those beliefs). But then I saw what they would have done alternatively with Callisto and having a sister and I was like oh no, and it would be mainly on hercules? I believe now the fact that Xena got pregnant and the whole whose the father etc. is what kept that show going/prolonging it. I wonder if Eve's peaceful'ness shortened it. IDK. Would have been nice to see where the natural creativity would have went had it not been cut short. Since then I don't watch TV since it's all about money and then having someone tell us what we can and can't watched based on whatever. We can't even get the satisfaction of a Movie. At least Buffy did the honours in all that, but then 'Buffy' had a chance to play out their storyline to the end. (I don't count comics). I've accepted she died, for a moment in my life I was sad because of the movie thing but I'm over it now. She's dead to me now.

-My most angriest episode is the one with Tara. The writer deliberately wrote her to be annoying even though that was resolved in an earlier episode, she did this because she felt that Tara was an annoying character. When I learned that she made her annoying because of her own feelings I wanted her strangled. That's how sad/angry it made me. And I really loved that episode too. I also liked Tara.

-I wish they had shown Aphrodite more as a warrior instead of playing into modern sterotypes. Historically Aphrodite 'was' a warrior until Ares stepped into the picture and took it away. She used to be the goddess of war and love. She was worshipped by spartans as such. (Athens pretty much screwed everything up for us with their women are objects deal).

-I loved Them Bones Them Bones just as it was.

-I didn't think The Purity was a rip off of the debt. I loved Lao Ma. And wished she had come back. But it was interesting to her storyline to know she had two other daughters. I liked learning that Xena was another daughter to her, the one linked with her dove (the hawk and the dove). I didn't hate the episode, when I first saw it it I loved it. And now it just is. (I generally don't actually watch season 5 and season 6 the way I do earlier seasons). 1.) because the pregnancy thing is interesting...when you first see it on TV. But after that it's just...you begin to desire they did it differently but I think that's what happens from watching things over and over again 2.) I personally had trouble sitting through the Valkeryies and mainly saddened by Xena losing her memory and getting married (I didn't like all that) even when it was on tv. 3.) She dies in the end and after watching it a million times I realize that just wasn't realistic, Xena dies for a million souls who taunted her while she tried to give her friends ashes. She did so much more horrible stuff and that one 'accident' is what she has to pay for it. It can either be called irony or bad writing not because of the show but because of the forced ending. They even wanted to go on and make Gabrielle because some Amazon thing.

-I hated the idea of an Amazon series and glad they didn't do it. I love the Amazons but as main characters? Nah. Would have reminded me of Sheena, Beastmaster and all them others.

-I find the more you watch something over and over again scrutinizing the more a person will find faults and dislikes. When I first saw a lot of these episodes I loved them. Then I began watching them over and over again, I began noticing different cameras, acting styles, just everything was just...I liked some episodes more, didn't like what they did here or there wished it had been another way. But it did happen and come out that way and it'll never change unless we write personal fanfiction that most people don't want to read! I watch Xena sometimes now but in the background it plays like music while I do work.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Caenis,

Cool! Some discussion on Xena.

quote:

-I didn't like Callisto as an angel (however) I did love the peace that came to her. I was very angry however when Xena returned and they wrote her and Eve (Callisto's spirit) to be at war with one another. I disliked the Eve/Eli play, I wanted Callisto to heal. I know that if they didn't do that way they would have kept finding ways to have Callisto die or do stupid stuff, they even had the whole 'sister' thing they wanted to play on. But I believe that would have been on hercules or something (I hate cross overs, then I have to buy them lol).

quote:

-I don't believe Callisto was evil before Xena came along, and there is contrary evidence to suggest that. For example the archangels said that had Xena not killed her family she would have turned out right. Also remember the underlying theme of the movie is people turned bad through some tragic event in their life. But then of course this is someone who LOVES (more than loves) Callisto and villains and actually doesn't believe in the whole good/evil. Everyone has the ability to be good or evil we're just waiting for the right or wrong situations to bring it out.

i also didn't like Callisto as an angel nor the reborn as Eve, or the whole Eve thing period. i still believe Callisto was evil before meeting Xena. i think the seeds were there. Plenty of people had their families killed by Evil Xena & her army but only Callisto became a mass murderer as a result of it. If she had gone after only Xena or only Xena & her family/friends that would be one thing. But i think there was evil brewing in Callisto before Xena came along. Maybe it was fate (or the Fates?) that her army happened to burn that particular village. i got so tired of Callisto's self-righteous whine about Xena destroying her family when she herself did the same to other innocents. i look upon Callisto carrying on as Eve/Livia as yet another form of revenge on Callisto's part. If she really wanted to be good, why not be a guardian angel for Eli, and keep him from being harmed by Ares & others? Besides, i don't trust Michael & those archangels any more than i do Callisto. They have their own agenda which seems to be getting rid of other gods in favor of their own. i'm thinking maybe X&G's minds were tampered with or maybe they came back to an alternate reality, as you mentioned elsewhere.

quote:

(-I also didn't like Xena going to sleep for 25 years. I didn't like the zoom at all. Would have been cooler if Eve was kidnapped or something and taken to some parallel universe or dimension. That would have sped up her growth, or if she drunk something or something happened that made her grow up quick etc. The whole point of the zoom was to get the baby out of the way. I think it could have been handled differently and I'm sure in an alternative universe it was (wish I was there), however when I first saw the episode it was 'hurry up and make peace' and lets get back on track. Who knows maybe it was the baby that broke or made Xena. After that they couldn't even really bring Callisto back (and if they did she'dve been evil).)

i agree about the 25 yr sleep. That sucked. It also basically killed of/drastically aged a lot of reoccurring characters (Joxer, Auto, the families of X&G, etc). Much as i disliked another child of Xena, i had wanted her to be a simple peasant girl living a simple life. Not yet another tired take on evil chick turns good. Out of character for Xena to give her kid to a Roman let alone a Roman big-shot. May seem like the last place anyone would look for Eve but give me a break. i guess Eve as a gentle peasant girl isn't dramatic enough though it would be a nice change.

quote:

-I was angry how they made Gabrielle's child a demon but they made Xena's child an angel. I was surprised that didn't cause a rift between them, but it did always emotionally effect Gabrielle, she seemed to have a distance between Eve (esp. after the Joxer event). She never really warmed up to her because perhaps deep down she wanted her to be evil and Xena to kill her like Hope. She has a moment where she talks to Hope and for a moment Xena seems to crack. I actually think in the show Xena's personality never allowed her to be wrong etc. and since we're seeing it through her personality and feelings and Gabrielle's love we don't have the whole 'you're suppressing me' feeling.

i've never liked the way they handled post-resurrection Gabby. She never rang true. Maybe the real Gabby was left in heaven or hell & Eli brough back a doppelganger, or Michael did a number on her mindset. TPTB changed Gabby when Lucy got knocked up to make her warrior-like & not question much about what had happen or would happen. Gabby became Xena Jr much to my dismay. In season 6, she did seem to slowly change to her old self at times, if i recall correct (haven't re-watched that far yet.)

quote:

-No the Chakram story 'was' never told to most peoples satisifaction. Perhaps had the story been allowed to live on we would know now. This is what we know. 1.) Xena has a Chakram that is of the Gods 2.) Callisto could wield the Chakram (so there was a secret to it, perhaps having a dark soul or tragic past and or lots of anger to extreme). 3.) If you hit Xena with the Chakram it breaks (Callisto who could wield the Chakram hit Xena, anger against anger, power against power) when I look at it that way it makes perfect sense. 4.) When Xena comes back the fact that the Chakram is broken erases her memory. So Xena's soul and the Chakram must be intricately connected esp. with her path as a warrior. 5.) The fact that Eve can hold the Chakram to me doesn't mean much without Callisto's soul.

Tying Xena's memory and/or soul to the chakram was discussed when the ep came out. It was something i never liked because the character was so established by then. If the chakram was to become something like Thor's hammer in Marvel Comics then it should have been explained long before & especially when/how it effected Evil Xena. If the series is ever re-done, a "living" chakram might be interesting but for our Xena's history, keep it a just a weapon & nothing more. But sadly they opened a can of worms they never closed.

quote:

-I do buy the end of Season 4. I enjoyed Gabrielle's development and glad she discovered her way wasn't the path of peace, that was a crucial event for her to find herself and realize why she does with herself. Her jump to action was possibly an excuse even without Xena's pregnancy she would have fought, she was heading that way anyway. The only other thing that may have happened is her becoming 'Eve' for Eli and I hate peaceful angelic holier than thou characters. (I also hated the story of tragic event turned bad, and not focusing on anyone else who had a tragic event and didn't turn bad. But it is what it is and I do enjoy Xena.)

i don't doubt that Gabby's way wasn't the way of peace. As mentioned above, i doubt her reactions to everything that happened to her from the Roman bloodbath to the time she & Xena returned from heaven/hell. i don't believe she needed to become an Eve for Eli. She could have simply gone home or started a hospice until we see her convincingly decide to return to Xena.

i also liked Tara & disliked the end of the Greek gods. Now skipping past season 6 stuff (hadn't re-watched it for a long time):

quote:

-I find the more you watch something over and over again scrutinizing the more a person will find faults and dislikes. When I first saw a lot of these episodes I loved them. Then I began watching them over and over again, I began noticing different cameras, acting styles, just everything was just...I liked some episodes more, didn't like what they did here or there wished it had been another way. But it did happen and come out that way and it'll never change unless we write personal fanfiction that most people don't want to read! I watch Xena sometimes now but in the background it plays like music while I do work.

Watching Xena the first time, well hindsight is 20/20. First time around, i liked seasons 5 & 6 more than i should have, didn't criticize it as much as i should have. i post my complaints now to make up for what i didn't say years ago. Can't change things, no. But it feels good gettin' it all off my chest.

Keep posting, Caenis. Great to have discussion here. Maybe you can point out some good things i don't see in season 5 heh heh. i still dislike "Purity" to the extreme. But it's nice to read differing opinions.

It was fun talking about Xena . Well I don't often come online/do forums these days (I'm usually contemplating my life while playing games like Fable II/series) and recently got Dragon Age PC, can't play it on my PC (because the laser or dvd/cd rom drive won't work--and technical support is never helpful lol), and so I am waiting for my Xbox 360 version to come and permission to use another PC here.

I wish I did come on more! The reason why I got this is because It automatically notifies me I think and I replied once before when I still did forums. I was too lazy to come back and turn them off so instead I just read them whenever I get the notification.

One day I got a notification (recently)it was interesting and it provoked some comments and thoughts!

I had some comments and thoughts in reply to this one but I left my computer for a day and now have to reread to see what I came up with!!

Hehe.

Xena did a lot of the same thing that Callisto did. I guess the only difference is that Xena met Gabrielle who helped change her path. She met Hercules but she wouldn't have stuck with it without Gabby. But there is another Xena forum where they actually had a huge debate on this, and there were so many good reasons why she couldn't be evil and why she wasn't!

You know regarding the 25 year sleep that made me angry too. So many characters had to be killed off because of that, and we never even learned about what happened to them. Hell they could have told us what happened to Hercules for all of that!

Hey you know I never thought of that about the peasant girl and I think you're right! It would have been more interesting if Xena went to find Eve and learned she was a peasant girl hell even one who was against violence and if they wanted to do that 'evil' twist then do it where Xena can see it happening. I think now that would have been more interesting. But becoming the tool of Eli.

Also you're right about those archangels, they were shady. It kinda made me think of Eli and Eve as shady beings too knowing they were tools for the archangels and gladly followed them.

It was good to know Xena bowed down to know God.

I am nervous about a series being redone. I really like Lucy Lawless and Renee O' Conner (not as people) but how they filled their roles. Someone mentioned they felt they had moved on from Xena and couldn't do it now, and I debated whether they were right or not.

Maybe there will be another series written, but I am so scared that it won't do the old one justice, that I won't like the actresses or I'll think too much of the old ones since thats the faces and voices I have. That I'll need to buy cable lol or just the season, and that it will start after I've gone and died! Well there are just so many fears that I have regarding that.

(Sometimes I don't want to die before I've gotten to see if a lot of the games I want to play and shows are going to happen LOL!)

I am the same way with complaining about Xena. 1st time it was great! But after watching it so much you just can't help but notice and even complain. And wonder hell did I really like that! It was unique for the kind of show that it was of it's day and even now watching it there is nothing similar or close to it.

And even Buffy had some inspirations from Xena the guy admitted. I liked Charmed, Buffy, and Xena.

i hope there is another shot at the Xena series or at least a movie. Long as it's well written, i think i can trust they'd cast good actresses in place of Lucy & Renee (who certainly should have cameos at the very least). i'd like to see a series take on Xena's story in chronological order, even if it meant no Gabrielle til later on. Even if they tampered with the original show's history, well, that's fine because the original show tampered with real history & myth all the time.

i would have loved to gotten in on that debate about Callisto. But i never leave this forum for another Xena forum. Argy would skin me alive! Now if others came here to debate & discuss, i'm hip to that.

Last time i watched Xena on dvd, many years ago, i stopped at "Purity", which was so bad it made me stop watching the dvds til now. But i promised i'd go to the very end, so...

"Back In the Bottle"

Again, this was terrible. i didn't recognize Xena at all. Whiny Xena. i couldn't stand her in this ep. The whole shooting fireworks from her hands or whatever was unintentionally funny as well as boring. All the explosions reminded me of some bad NBC cop show.

i didn't care much for Gabby/Little Xena here either. Her new "way", to me, resulted in the show losing its heart.

i'd forgotten how much i began to despise Joxer at this point in season 5. Except for "Succession", TPTB stuck us with either Joxer or Amarice or both in every ep up to this one (or Aphrodite in the next ep) as a necessary comic relief. Too much! And Joxer's harping at Gabby about loving her- jeepers, enuff already. Maybe this was a result of the Herc writers influence.

"Little Problems"

The little girl/Xena switch was okay. i thought the Gabby/Dite parts got old fast. Xena smiled too much, it unnerved me.

A big reason i dislike season 5 is the lack of any good villains. Caesar is gone, Pompey gone, and Alti is in some between worlds realm. Callisto isn't supposed to be a villain but i consider her one. i think she's working for the devil as an angel. i never liked Eve/Livia and i don't think supposedly redeemed Eve was particularly much good and certainly not of any use to the show. i don't consider the Greek gods as villains in the Twilight of the Gods arc. They're just tryin to survive even though i thought they were written as not having much common sense in their unnecessary battles with Xena. i guess the TPTB can be considered villains for the directions the show took. Oh well.

"Seeds of Faith"

Twilight of the Gods. Interesting idea gets screwed up the Tapert way. Now if the ppl were actually being persecuted by the gods, different story. If the gods had become mean, evil or whatever, okay. But to Twilight the Greek gods for the Dawning of the One god- nope, stupid idea.

Damn if Callisto didn't look like she was on Thorazine or some anti-depressant. Or maybe like body snatchers- look for pods in the cellar. Angel Eli was the same way. Doped up & emotionless. Xena's trust of Callisto at the end didn't ring true with me. What has been explained yet of the one god to X&G? Why does Eli go along with it all? i would think Eli would say ppl don't need any gods, just love & faith in yourself & one another. Why tie it in to another deity? Callisto tells him he was chosen but he doesn't resist and want to know more. 'Oh just die for the cause, Eli.

So if Xena didn't kill Ares with the Dagger of Helios for slaying Eli, why would she kill the gods even if her kid heralded the Twilight or whatever? Does the Twilight change the gods to idiots? Oh, right, only in Tapert-land.

Hmmm Callisto (working perhaps for her devil master) helps get Eli killed (looking all sickly sincere & concerned). Now on to riding the world of the Greek gods. Don't buy it. If she's really good, then her reincarnated self shouldn't be evil as Livia turns out to be. Or if so, why would they allow her of all people to be reincarnated? Why not Eli as Xena's son? Well that'd be boring, eh? Then they couldn't run their bad-chick-turned-good theme into the ground again.

i still don't buy warrior Gabrielle. The whole role reversal of X&G in season 5 was a bummer.

The ep did look nice, i'll give it that much. There were plenty of interesting ideas (particularly liked when Ares let Gabby know what if feels like to be a god) but sadly these ideas were twisted into dumb plots or not realized at all.

"Lyre Lyre, Hearts on Fire"

Nice lite ep. Would have been much better without pregnant Xena.

"Punch Lines"

i'd forgotten this ep. Wish i could still say that. What an insult to the Xena series this is. Nothing worthwhile or salvageable here, just a time filler. How did Joxer recall his death in "Been There Done That"? And why couldn't Gabby recall the times Joxer helped X&G- like from Callisto in "Return of Callisto"? Boo & hiss to the writers, producers & directors of this ep for lame subplots & unfunny scenes & predictable storylines. Bad enough pregnant Xena was little more than comic relief for half the season...

"God Fearing Child"

Well the acting was good and the show looked good. The Solan subplot was unnecessary if its only point was naming the child.

So how come the Fates only find out that the birth of Xena's child will herald the death of the Greek gods when the child's about ready to be born? Are they not reading those threads as thoroughly as they should?

If only Xena had put Eve in a basket and sent her down river at the end of the ep. Let some village family raise her as a peasant girl, free from the danger of Xena's enemies.

"If only Xena had put Eve in a basket and sent her down river at the end of the ep. Let some village family raise her as a peasant girl, free from the danger of Xena's enemies."

Lol! Yeahh Xena would never allow that to happen, because everything she says is God's Law. If you notice most of the time she forces Gabrielle to make sacricices but she herself won't.

Of course there are many valid reasons why Xena didn't. And there are many reasons why they didn't. Because the whole thing had already been played they needed something new and fresh.

And Xena had never got to raise a child before. I thought it was important that they put Solen in though I hated the child actor who played him this time around >.>. Of course when she got the chance to be a mother she wanted to take it, she didn't want to give it up again esp. if she were now 'Good', like she had to give up Solen.

Meeting Solen was her way to reconcile that possibly because Xena still felt guilty about raising the child whereas Solen never had that. I thought it was worth looking back on that.

So in truth Xena made sacrifices when she felt it was 100% necessary, but could she kill her own child if she had to? No. Gabrielle was always the stronger there, but she was stronger there because it was necessary to be on Xena's good side and because she loved Xena.

Also with the child born because of what they wrote it wasn't safe to just leave her be. But there were so many ways they could have gotten rid of the child so that Xena didn't have to grow 100 years. Since they didn't do it that way we can only right fan fiction and think of alternative ones in our head.

I haven't watched Xena in months now.

i've never understand how they could write Xena believing she could raise a child. Even without the threat of the gods this time round, she still has too many enemies. To make it true to Xena, she should have had a couple contingency plans on who to give the baby to for raising once born. Fake the child's death from the get-go?

A return of Solan deserved an ep of its own or shared with another minor story. GFC had enough drama going on. It would have been interesting if X&G ran into Solan in the Elysian Fields during the Eve storyline. i'd liked to have heard Solan speak plainly to X&G about the Rift and how their lives changed since. You know, a kids say the darnedest but true things kinda chat. An exchange between Solan & Gabrielle concerning Hope would have been nice.

Season 5 was also in desperate need of fresh prospective from a seldom seen observer. There was too much overly melodramatic muck & a wretched amount of failed comic relief. Too much brawn and way too not enough brains.

i don't know if Xena forces Gabrielle to make sacrifices as much as she manipulates her. i've never liked this in Xena though at the same time i love watching Gabby struggle with the weight of her life with Xena, and the changes she must make to keep that life going forward. The dynamics of X&G's personality differences
and its effect on each other is what i considered the lifeblood of the show.

quote:

So in truth Xena made sacrifices when she felt it was 100% necessary, but could she kill her own child if she had to? No. Gabrielle was always the stronger there, but she was stronger there because it was necessary to be on Xena's good side and because she loved Xena.

You're absolutely spot on here. Making it necessary to be on Xena's good side is part of the yin yang thing i loved about X&G. This flip-flopped in season 5 with the pregnant Xena story. Sentimental Xena was a sorry sight for these eyes as much as Gabby getting too violent.

"Eternal Bonds"

So begins the baby eps. Blah. i recall growing very very sick of this storyline the first time around & the whole series was becoming a bore. Lost was the great difference between X&G, the yin-yang personalities. Where was redemption seeking Xena? Just cuz she got to heaven didn't mean diddley squat nor did getting a glimpse of her next future life as the mother of peace. And mass murdering Gabrielle ought to get on redemption seeking bandwagon. i got so sick of Gabby's "must protect Xena and our daughter" crap. *sigh of disgust*

Poisoned Joxer. The "love you Gabby why you no love me?"-"just as a friend, Joxy" shtick was old long before this ep & wasn't it resolved long before as well? As was the Xena/Ares thing. Pointless episode. Even the fight scenes sucked.

"Amphipolis Under Siege"

Damn, that Athena isn't very wise when it's Ares who makes this statement to her- "Have you considered that maybe this prophecy is fulfilling itself?! Think about it. What can Xena's baby do to us? Really? Yet the more we fight amongst ourselves about the future of this one tiny child, the more vulnerable we become." And that Zeus would've lived had he left well enough alone. Ares has more common sense that his supposedly smart sister.

There are a few things i like about this ep but more that i don't. Why are the gods dragging their feet in killing Eve? Why didn't Athena- who could appear so no one could see her- just slip in & slit Eve's throar? Or Hades could do that wearing his invisibility helmet. Athena's top notch army doesn't win big time against a bunch of farmers? C'mon!

The Twilight storyline by this point reminded me of the Dahok saga. In that both fell apart in logic and sense as they went along. TPTB were just incapable of telling a good story for so long a time. Anyway, most of the good writers were gone by now.

These two eps were simple & predictable. i felt cheated because XWP wasn't being creative or putting out smart stories. And the worst Xena ep ever was yet to come!