quote:

Originally posted by MinionOfCallisto:
Prolly same issue with future Eps as with the theorethical "Xena Movie". The market ain't there any more IMHO. So any expansion on the "old" H:TLJ and X:WP "model" is rather unlikely, I'd say.

I mean, look at what we got in terms of SciFi/Fantasy TV series currently. Majority is rather SF than Fantasy. Last "big" fantasy series, incidentally a Tapert/Raimi flick as well, "Legend of the Seeker" got axed pretty quickly after 2 seasons only. And I don'T even blame the Mad Twilight Disease (TM) for atht development...

still, i wish LL & RoC would do a series together. That's really what i was hintin' at though i didn't say it very well. It wouldn't be the first time actors/actresses from one series reunite for a different series years later. i could see them as cops/private eyes, doctors, CSI (Athens maybe) or something paranormal. If they were cops, maybe Hudson could have a reoccurring part as a mafia person or something. Ted could be a bumbling private eye wanna-be. And Bruce Campbell, the king of thieves 21st century style!

i didn't care much for Twilight but i do like Kristen Stewart, espec. in The Runaways movie as Joan Jett.

quote:

Originally posted by Michelle:
am i also the only one who thinks a xena movie without lucy and renee, may as well not even bother getting made?

if they make a xena movie with LL & RoC they'd best get their butts in gear & hurry it up. Those two won't be believable as action characters for much longer. But it wouldn't bother me to see others in the roles of X&G. It doesn't replace or change what came before. It would just be something different.

i decided to make watching Xena a theme thing. Last time it was future eps. This time it's my fave of the India eps.

First off, "Between the Lines". lot going on here.

The Mendi. Ha, remember the Mendi craze on the scrolls back in the day?

Naiyima the Darsham. Not much told about her. With her being so smart & powerful, why would she let herself be sacrificed to a stoopid tradition that she herself had the power to change? Where did she go to at the end? Was she available for house calls and magic tricks at parties?

X&G as Arminestra & Shakti. First it's refereed to as "a" future life then they later call it the "next" future life. i wish the crappy finale would have ended with the lives of Arminestra & Shakti. But if Xena is Mother of Peace after being warrior doing right, why is Gabby only a warrior doing right after being peacfnik then warrior doing right. Guess this means the way of warrior was wrong for her, eh? This future life here foretells that Xena dies first as Arminestra is much older than Shakti. So what happens to A&S after the spirits X&G send Alti back to the past? Do they get hitched? Do they get killed at the same time so that they are reborn at the same time in the next life? i wanna know!

It took me a couple times to first appreciate "The Way" which is now one of my fave eps. Lot goin on here too.

Indrajit. Krishna. Hanuman. A funky trio appearing only in this ep. Here Xena has less respect for the culture & deities than in the crappy finale in Japan. Why? And why didn't they dig up more deities in Japan in help Xena? Oh right, it was the finale and was written illogically as such.

This would have made a better finale than the FIN nonsense. Eli heads home & we use our imagination to fill in the rest. X&G end up with Yin-Yang relationship instead of as Xena-Xena Jr. Xena herself says here that the way of the warrior is not for Gabby. They should have stuck with that. Gabby didn't have to become the li'l monster she became. Her own version of a way of love didn't need to be a carbon copy of Eli's way. Anyhoo, too late now to change.

Two fine eps, glad to have seen them again.

Now that I incidentally watched a big chunk of season 3 again (lotsa Callisto appearances for me *G*), I start to regret not having gotten some select H:TLJ episodes. Especially the double episode "Armageddon Now" is so much tied into the X:WP story arc. Also "Surprise" gioves some ssentials. Dang, really, should have gotten off my lazy butt to get those when it was kinda easier.

On a side note... I still hate it how the Eve/Livia part got not resolved at all in the series ending. I mean, what was the last we really saw? Nothing even remotely pointing towards a believeable future end? Meh.

First TPTB get all high and mighty with that crypto-heaven/hell-redemption-whatdoIknow story arc and then they let it sort of flunk out. Could ofc be I have to rewatch seasons 4 and/or 5 again to getter better bearings...

i have some of those tie-in Herc eps that i taped. They aren't very good condition last i watched 'em, which was years n years ago. Xena crossovers should've been included on the Xena dvds. i thinks so anyway.

Oh there were so many badly executed plots & sideplots in seasons 5 & 6. Eve/Livia seemed to be little more than a character to move along a story where the writers couldn't come up with any good ideas. Season 6 was especially lazy in the storytelling. It was like, "final season, why bother being creative or doing character development?" A show that started with a bang went out with a whimper. A few nice eps sneaked in but those, imo, were the off the beaten track tales and not the usual X&G eps whose greatness rocked the early years.

Had tptb given Eve some real character development maybe she could have been a deciding factor in the finale. She was earlier headed towards Chin (and maybe Japan later?). With Gabby as good as emotionless & brain-dead in the final 2 seasons, they might as well have made Eve the learning, changing character. But again, lazy storytelling.

I actually come to think this "leaving story arcs unfinished" has become quite the trend in, say, the last decade? I mean there are numerous examples just I myself could cite, and I'm surely not the most avid TV viewer on the block.

Seems either the industry continues screwing it all up with their sometimes weird decisions on continuation or not and rather late noticing for series. (Cannot really blame the writer's strike in the US for such stuff tho.) But out of my head I can call up half a dozen series immediately which got kind of "screwed up" apart from X:WP. And quite recently. And trend doresn't seem to reverse sadly.

In fact, contemplating that, X:WP probably got one of the better "write-outs" all-in-all. Still not good enough for many an avid fan, but could have been worse by far. I mean, not every TV series can go out with such a flashy and classy ending on (rather) short notice as i.e. "Angel" did. Of course, in hat very case might have had something to do with the backstory of that cancellation as well (was a rather early one).

Hoping to watch some Xena over the holidays though things they get busy over turkey day (turkeys like me gotta hide to keep from being somebody's din-din!).

In keepin with watchin eps by a theme, i first decided to pick my 2 fave Callisto eps. But that would be "Callisto" & "Return of Callisto", both which i've rewatched plenty o' times. i think i prefer mortal Callisto best.

So i then decided to go with my 2 fave non-mortal Callisto eps. My first choice is "Intimate Strangers" where both Hudson & LL get to be Callisto. Next up will be "A Necessary Evil", though maybe i might change that & watch both "Sacrifice" eps. i dunno, guess i'm gonna have to think on this. Hmmmm.

Yeah, gonna save some for Xmas holiday here. I think the next two weekends I'll dedicate to watch most of "Dollhouse" again, which incidentally got cancelled early this year. Seem to have a knack recently for getting into series which become cancelled.

i want to get dollhouse on dvd.

i was really getting into tru calling to when it got cancelled. i was very sad.

i haven't watched any new shows in a decade. Just can't keep with it i guess. The last new show i started was "Roswell". ha ha. how many years has that been off the air now?!?!

i watched "Intimate Strangers" & "A Necessary Evil" the other day.

"Intimate Strangers": i dunno why Xena felt guilt over letting Callisto die. Had she let her live, she was bound to escape & kill again & that would have been worse guilt. Callisto was beyond redemption, imo, & i think Xena knew it as well. Even before Xena's army destroyed her village, i think Callisto had some mental illness or evil boiling below the surface. Evil Xena brought these things above surface, but Callisto took joy in her destruction, one that went beyond being rooted in what Xena had done to her. Xena only gave life to the monster that was waiting to live.

So who was better: LL as Callisto or Hudson as Xena? ah, it be a toss-up, i enjoyed both.

Callisto's mom is in Tarturus. Why not the Elysian Fields? Makes it harder buying the Callisto angel-conversion crap they tried to sell us in "Fallen Angel".

"A Necessary Evil": i always loved Velasca. Those eyes! Those lips! She deserved to be brought back. Maybe kick Varia's worthless butt.

i missed the Herc ep where Callisto becomes immortal. Xena wants to enlist help from Callisto to fight Velasca. Gabby suggests help from Herc but Xena doesn't know where he is. Couldn't she enlist help from the main amazon goddess, Artemis? Which would make sense considering that Velasca trashes one of her temples in the ep?

Not only does Xena not hunt for Herc or get help from Artemis, but she frees Callisto, and promises her ambrosia. Um, couldn't it have been like candy ambrosia? Trick Callisto when she's battling Velasca or promise to give it to her after she's finished with Velasca? i don't see the wisdom in giving Callisto ambrosia, even if means getting rid of Velasca. But without it, the events of "Maternal Instincts" might never have happened, and the rift was a good storyline.

Velasca is like Callisto in that even after both become so powerful, they still are bent on revenge against Gabby and Xena. Does too much power make one stoopid? Neither gather the army they could have to exact such revenge. Neither has a plan for what they will be goddess of. i guess their ego or emptiness inside leads to their respective dooms.

i loved the village scene where Xena confessed her crimes against Callisto & her village. Callisto's expression during this talk was priceless. Would Callisto have confessed her crimes against similar villages? No, she doesn't see it that way. She's evil to the core and they should have kept her that way. i'd rather have seen a reformed Alti than an angelic Callisto any ol day!

i keep forgettin' about the Xena/Herc trilogy. Haven't seen it in ages. i have it on video but today i ordered a new dvd copy from amazon marketplace. i hope the sound quality is good as seasons 1 & 2 of Xena have terrible sound quality.

They really should reissue & remaster & add goodies to the early Xena seasons- plus repackage them in better cases. They should also include the Trilogy as part of Season 1 and toss in any crossover with the Herc show in its corresponding season of Xena.

Watched the Xena/Herc trilogy on dvd over the weekend. well i shouldn't say too much bad about as it was pre-XWP & they didn't have a back story yet.

"Warrior Princess" is my fave part of the trilogy. Xena the manipulator yay. i love the part where she's overlookin Herc & Iolaus fightin over her & the wind is blowin her hair & she has this mean they's-eatin-outta my-grimy-hands look that's also sexy.

"The Gauntlet" starts out okay but i don't buy how Evil Xena changed so quickly. i mean, she was ready to take off Herc's head to get her army back one minute, and a few minutes later she was all "oooh i've changed". huh?

Now it's one thing to be ticked off that her right hand guy took over her army & had them kill women & kids. Given how bad Xena is in the ep before, i don't get why she doesn't kill Darphus from the get-go. Even if there had been no XWP show, we still know how evil she is & she was going against her character by not killing Darphus.

The odd thing about the gauntlet she walked through was how Darphus told his guys -formerly Xena's guys- to kill her after she survived. But they said they wouldn't cross that line. Um, but they have no problems killin women & kids & babies. i don't believe Xena saving that one baby changed her. i don't see how Herc changed her. Too bad that sometime during the run of XWP, they didn't go back & update the bad-to-good story of Xena.

"Unchained Heart", well, Xena looked hot with that hair-do and all. But her syrupy voice & sugary attitude was unnerving! i know this was before they had her character plotted out but still it doesn't ring true with what came after.

Yeah, it is really unfortunate how a large chunk of "The becoming of Callisto" is missing unless you have access to the H:TLJ episodes "Surprise" and "Armageddon now 1&2".

The former showing how Callisto became immortal in the first place. So that the Ambrosia "administered" in ANE is really more of a sugar coating to obtain Xena a somewhat more overpowering nemesis. Also a nice twist on the side to show how ruthlessly Callisto is used by the god(s) in this littel piece. I actually think there might have been a little jab included on this episode from the writers towards the greek gods. Going part with the H:TLJ leitmotiv of the uncaring gods treating mortals (Callisto still being one at start) like playthings. And the other part a reference to the whole "hubris" concept in general. Quite a nice episode to read between the lines, "Surprise", the on-screen part is rather only somewhat above average.

The latter (double episode) then shows how Callisto's "madness" most likely became reality. Again, if you go by the mere on-screen action you can likely attribute it to her in the end killing her family. That is, if you leave out the utter concept of "fate" which even in the somewhat philosophically shallow realm of greek mythology was an entity of its own (aka "the fates"). One could almost surmise some prankful and manipulatve god "engineered" the part in Cirrha to play out in exactly that way. To "forge" Callisto into a useful tool. Would have suspected Ares, if it hadn't been a bit too subtle and psychologically complex. And gotta love that fancy moment when evil empress Xena orders "Break her legs!" aimed at rabble-rouser Gabby.

Actually, seeing how those two/three episodes panned out, it is somewhat hard to put much blame at Calliso's feet for her initial betrayal and playing both sides in ANE. I mean, hey, if everybody else keeps using people mainly for their own purposes...? Thinking of it, after what happened in those 2 H:TLJ episodes, Callisto still seems to have surprisingly sane moments. Would have been no surprise if she had turned totally raving mad after that.

Indeed, coming back to my original point, without those two H:TLJ episodes a large chunk of Callisto's biography is missing. Guess I have to be grateful that back in the days our totally messed up airing schedule here allowed me to watch both of them.

Great post, MoC! i never did get to see "Surprise" & missed getting it on tape. But i should have the "Armageddon Now" eps on tape...somewhere. It'd definitely be worth diggin thru my mess of Xena related vhs's.

Do they show Herc on cable anymore? i'd like to get "Surprise" on tape (without having to buy pricey dvd sets). Then if i had it, i would watch all the Callisto eps of Xena & Herc.

To be honest, m8, if the "supply situation" your place is anywhere as bad as over here, just try getting those episodes as torrent downloads somewhere. Or just check Ebay mebbe for someone selling old stuff? Believe it or not, I used to have the "Xena Collection" triple-pack from early H:TLJ on VHS. Used to because I'm not sure it would be easy to get a VHS machine these days to hook up with all my fancy contemporary gear...

On DVD it might be harder to get, there is a reason they never released the crossover episodes in an extra set, they do want you to buy full sets of both series! Doesn't matter everybody isn't made out of money...

well phooey, all i have is "Armageddon Now Pt 2" on vhs. i see some cheapo prices on used Herc box sets but not cheap enuff for me. Guess i'll just wait or hunt down some torrents that will work on my wacky computer.

Next time i watch XWP it's gonna be the "Adv in the Sin Trade" eps. The theme is my favorite eps with snow & these'll do, pig.

Watched "Adv In the Sin Trade 1 & 2" recently.

It's too bad that Cyane was killed off so soon. Next to Ephiny, she's my favorite Amazon. She is what the Amazons of seasons 5 & 6 needed- someone smart, powerful, and wise. Not the dummies like Varia.

Anokin. Ya know, i think Alti killed Anokin. What was the purpose of Anokin? Alti introduced her as her "apprentice". But c'mon, Alti would never want an apprentice, she wants all the power for herself. She's just a user. By allowing Xena to befriend Anokin, then kill her, Alti brings Xena to the Land of the Dead to visit Anokin. But Anokin rebukes Xena, saying Xena poisoned her soul. Huh? Shouldn't she blame Alti for that? Or maybe Anokin is blind to the fact that Alti controlled her, had a spell on her. This afterlife scene with Anokin makes Xena angry at Anokin, wanting revenge on the dead, and that boosts Alti's chances of getting control of the Amazon's souls once Xena kills them.

Anyway, great eps. Nice psychedelic feel to the whole thing.

hmmm they had a Herc movie on starz or encore a week ago that i'd never seen. It had Renee but not as Gabrielle, & Robt Trebor but not as Salmoneous. Renee was a princess & she was also Herc's side-kick. Not sure of the name of the flick but i'd to see it all the way thru.

Caught 2 Xena eps this weekend. The theme was my fave Xena offspring eps. So, no Eve as i hated her & season 5, and her eps in season 6. So i watched "Maternal Instincts" & "Bitter Suite".

Never understood why Kaleipus' hut would be considered the "safest place". Seems like every amazon, centaur, warrior and their bros was gainin easy access to it. i mean, where else to find Solan but the hut of the guy who raised him? Duh! Maybe they shoulda dressed Solan up like an amazon, with all that hair, he could part-ways pass.

i keep wonderin how Hope killed Solan. Didn't see any blood. Did she stuff some of my dirty socks in his mouth? Or worse, did she show him a pic of me? Yikes!

When Callisto realizes Solan is dead, when she's got revenge on Xena, she feels empty. i wonder if this coulda been a defining moment for her where X&G could have changed her over to good. Now i always believed she's evil but maybe i was wrong. Maybe her emptiness could have been fulfilled had she been led to change at that moment. Instead, Xena buries her under a buncha rocks (how original, how permanent that will be, i says sarcastically).

In AITST we learn that Alti has cursed Solan before he was born. That's such a cop-out. It's like an excuse for both X&G's stoopidness in Maternal Instinct and belittles the incriminations & forgiveness that made the Bitter Suite a joy. Much as i love this musical ep, i would also like to have seen an end to the rift without the use of fantasy.

xc here fighting cold, cough, sniffles & runaway nose. Stills i shows up at the scrolls nerrr!

Theme tonite: fave eps of S5 & S6. S5!?!?! ha! well i do like "Succession". Liked the way they did the "Ladyhawke" take-off. Mostly i liked it cuz Gabby didn't give in to killing Mavican. Could have been a deeper, turning point back to peaceful Gabby but it's still a great ep stuck in a terrible season.

For S6, i picked "When Fates Collide". Much love for this ep, the crowning achievement of S6 and really shoulda been the finale. Could write more on my love for this ep but i'm a-ailin' & offs to bed, wishing my wives were nurses to attend to me. *sigh*

"Musical" episodes, I actually watched a couple recently from various shows. Well, obviously every show has its own way doing that kind of stuff, different formats and what not. Still, I gotta say I dearly love "The Bitter Suite" still. It has its very own particular topic, not just brewed up in sing-song style general issues of X:WP. Oh yeah, I know sooo many people totally hated the Gab-drag. But come one, compared to waht some characters have to go through on other shows... think of Tapert's/Raimi's "Spartacus" for example.

The other two musical episodes of X:WP I rate somewhat lower. "Lyre, Lyre, Hearts on Fire" never got me even half like TBS. Then we got a half musical episode "A Tale of Two Muses". I t actually has a lot of music in it, not so much song. Still the result is quite noteworthy.

Kinda left wanting in terms of a musical episode for season 6 now. S3 had TBS, S4 AToTM, S5 had LLHoF. Dunno if they didn't want to bother any more, ran out of ideas or why S6 didn't get one. I could think of at least 3 season 6 eisodes that could have turned into a musical one, but hey, I don't make TV shows, so duh...

At least the three we got from X:WP are not that cheesy, well, maybe except for LLHoF.

i'd half forgotten bout "A Tale of Two Muses" (i remembered the ep but forgot the title). i'll half to find a way to include it in my themed viewings.

This weekend i watched a triple Xena feature: "The Rheingold", "The Ring", and "The Return of the Valkyrie". Excellent li'l story arc, one TPTB managed to make good with no messin round.

You gotta be kidding me, XC. The way TPTB screwed around with norse mythology is just... wrong. Well, they are kinda okayish to watch to have some casual fun, but seriously, I always saw more missed opportunities there than success, to be honest.

They neither took a particular unconventional approach to the Grendel story (old Crichton movie "The 13th warrior" is good in that aspect), nor did they manage to make it a true epos (reference there might be Wagnerian operas) and comedy-wise... I mean, okay, limited budget, air time and what not granted, still wasn't and am not too thrilled.

Personally I think one major flaw was trying to stuff too much content into thsoe episodes. Might have been turned out better if they focused more on the Grendel story, OR the norse deities and mythology OR the whole valkyrie thing. As it is we get a bit of everything but not satisfying in any area. And Gabrielle's role in those episodes is more than wanting, tbh. Seems to me if they had written her out except for a cameo or two it won't have made much of a difference.

If I compare the whole "let's tackle norse mythology" thing to the story arc they did about india and comparable content there, India arc wins hands down.